Henrik: Will the new trees be speedtree 5.2?

[roidanielsen]

yeah we need HD Textures or some more undergrowth. Freaking ugly looking at all of this open space.

[Zheo]

Originally Posted by Tizio

* this

Speedgras is not included in speedtree and speedtree is included in the UDK, speedgrass not.

and they are not using UDK.. so u wouldnt know if they got speedgrass by looking what UDK has, UDK is like the demoversion of what MO is using

[Tizio]

Originally Posted by Zheo

and they are not using UDK.. so u wouldnt know if they got speedgrass by looking what UDK has, UDK is like the demoversion of what MO is using

Wait, they are not using UDK for make the game? UDK is not the UE 3.5 engine?

[TooArticulateToHandle]

Originally Posted by Hanai Bloodscar

Oh shit, he's 100%!

[Zheo]

Originally Posted by Tizio

Wait, they are not using UDK for make the game? UDK is not the UE 3.5 engine?

no, they have Unreal Engine lisence which allows them access to UE source code. UDK doesnt include any kind of way to change UE source code.

they need more control to the engine while making an mmo then UDK gives them.. i have no idea however what kind of speedtree lisence they have.

UDK didnt even exist back when they started developing the game.

[Tizio]

Originally Posted by Zheo

no, they have Unreal Engine lisence which allows them access to UE source code. UDK doesnt include any kind of way to change UE source code.

they need more control to the engine while making an mmo then UDK gives them.. i have no idea however what kind of speedtree lisence they have.

UDK didnt even exist back when they started developing the game.

They need more control yes, this is why they use Atlas

[deathshroud]

well devs should get speedgrass over speedtree

[Zealot]

Speedtree will include grass as well.

[Bonestorm]

Is there an ETA on speedtree/grass? I'd rather them fix some of the crashing problems first tbh. I can't play on settings outside of minimum due to memory crashes even though I could in the past.. ran it max beautifully.

[deathshroud]

so if u licence speedtree u automatically get speedgrass? or they baught seperate|?

[Kraibag]

Originally Posted by Bonestorm

Is there an ETA on speedtree/grass? I'd rather them fix some of the crashing problems first tbh. I can't play on settings outside of minimum due to memory crashes even though I could in the past.. ran it max beautifully.

SV can't say any ETA because it's a Epic work.

[Zealot]

Originally Posted by deathshroud

so if u licence speedtree u automatically get speedgrass? or they baught seperate|?

I was under the impression that speed tree included grass.

[Shinzon]

I would advise people to stop hyping up SpeedTree; it's really nothing special once everything is taken into account. It's like a while back with the LOD system, everyone was going apeshit.

[Pwntzyou]

Originally Posted by Tizio

99,999999% sure no.

This.

Originally Posted by Shinzon

I would advise people to stop hyping up SpeedTree; it's really nothing special once everything is taken into account. It's like a while back with the LOD system, everyone was going apeshit.

And Shinzon, I could not disagree more. At this point, some of the trees look worse than World of Warcraft's trees... that REALLY says something. Speedtree brings amazing detail at low poly count to the playing field (Just look at the UDK demo map) It would completely add a new layer to MO's realism.

[Norelion]

Originally Posted by Pwntzyou

And Shinzon, I could not disagree more. At this point, some of the trees look worse than World of Warcraft's trees... that REALLY says something. Speedtree brings amazing detail at low poly count to the playing field (Just look at the UDK demo map) It would completely add a new layer to MO's realism.

Ya, if the performance-loss is acceptable, if not they'll hopefully not put it in just for the sake of better looking trees... I, for myself, won't buy a new computer before christmas, at least, and if I couldn't play because of trees I would probably forget about the project to be honest.

[Volrain]

Originally Posted by forcem

no speed tree until Epic patch...

There is no such thing as the "Epic Patch" - Like I have said many times before there are hundred of titles out at the moment that use the Unreal 3 engine that have absolutely fine AI, Flash and the latest Speedtree.

You can go on believing in this patch from Epic solving loads of problems but I for one am not fooled. Just use commonsence and you will realise that waiting for this patch is silly.

[Norelion]

Originally Posted by Volrain

There is no such thing as the "Epic Patch" - Like I have said many times before there are hundred of titles out at the moment that use the Unreal 3 engine that have absolutely fine AI, Flash and the latest Speedtree.

You can go on believing in this patch from Epic solving loads of problems but I for one am not fooled. Just use commonsence and you will realise that waiting for this patch is silly.

That's your opinion and we accept it, now accept ours. What AI do most games have? This scripted shit, like "Oh you attack me, I attack back... now I heal on 50% hp, now I die"?

[Andi89]

Originally Posted by Volrain

There is no such thing as the "Epic Patch" - Like I have said many times before there are hundred of titles out at the moment that use the Unreal 3 engine that have absolutely fine AI, Flash and the latest Speedtree.

You can go on believing in this patch from Epic solving loads of problems but I for one am not fooled. Just use commonsence and you will realise that waiting for this patch is silly.

You do know that MO is the first game to use Atlas, do you?
MMO!=Shooter with 32 guys

[Volrain]

Originally Posted by Andi89

You do know that MO is the first game to use Atlas, do you?
MMO!=Shooter with 32 guys

We are talking about Epic the guys that make the Unreal 3 Engine and just because a game is an MMO does automatically make the AI any different. AI programming is AI programming nothing to do with something being an MMO or a 16 / 32 / 64 / 128 multiplayer game.

[Tizio]

Originally Posted by Volrain

We are talking about Epic the guys that make the Unreal 3 Engine and just because a game is an MMO does automatically make the AI any different. AI programming is AI programming nothing to do with something being an MMO or a 16 / 32 / 64 / 128 multiplayer game.

/facepalm

Yes, AI programmin have a lot to do with being an MMO.

Something called "overload server"

[Andi89]

Originally Posted by Volrain

AI programming is AI programming nothing to do with something being an MMO or a 16 / 32 / 64 / 128 multiplayer game.

It has. It is different for a server to run a game with 100 guys than to run a game with 3000 and guess where the AI is calculated...
It is the server for sure, else we would all face differently reacting mobs.
Also, world is seamless, meaning that a server has to calculate for 3000 people+all mobs where they are, what they are doing, and, in case of the AI, what they will be doing, how to react to what, etc...

Yes, AI programming is the same, but network-load isn't

[Volrain]

Originally Posted by Tizio

/facepalm

Yes, AI programmin have a lot to do with being an MMO.

Something called "overload server"

/facepalm

The AI programming for MO has to do with SV and how they programme the Unreal 3 engine. The unreal 3 engine is used for other MMOs and they do not have any problem with AI at all.

So some new patch for the Unreal Engine is going to do nothing for the AI in MO.

It is not hard to understand. So next time you /facepalm make sure there is not a pizza in you palm because right now you have pizza all over your face

[Tizio]

Originally Posted by Volrain

/facepalm

The AI programming for MO has to do with SV and how they programme the Unreal 3 engine. The unreal 3 engine is used for other MMOs and they do not have any problem with AI at all.

So some new patch for the Unreal Engine is going to do nothing for the AI in MO.

It is not hard to understand. So next time you /facepalm make sure there is not a pizza in you palm because right now you have pizza all over your face

So, you are saying that all what SV have said is a lie.

[Andi89]

Originally Posted by Volrain

/facepalm

The AI programming for MO has to do with SV and how they programme the Unreal 3 engine. The unreal 3 engine is used for other MMOs and they do not have any problem with AI at all.

I could only find 2: APB and Global Agenda, both have very limited instances and APB had at least in the part of beta that I was in not even an AI

[Henrik Nystrom]

Originally Posted by Volrain

There is no such thing as the "Epic Patch" - Like I have said many times before there are hundred of titles out at the moment that use the Unreal 3 engine that have absolutely fine AI, Flash and the latest Speedtree.

You can go on believing in this patch from Epic solving loads of problems but I for one am not fooled. Just use commonsence and you will realise that waiting for this patch is silly.

Just to clear this one out as I see it’s creating some confusion.

There is indeed an Epic Patch, but I guess not in the form you think. It's simply a patch from Epic Games hence the name, "Epic Patch".
We have today an AI that is above average that’s being used in today’s MMO but with one huge problem, one of the parts that are giving our AI "eyes" is lacking, without them they will act "dumb" in the player’s eyes and in some cases end up invisible for some players. This is what Epic Games is doing for us, giving them eyes, so our AI can be used as it should.

Comparing our game/AI with any other UE3 based mmo/game is just a waste of time in here in this case at least, as it cannot be compared in any way on this topic. We are still using UE3.5 and Atlas, with NO instances at all. You cannot find this in any other mmo on the market today using our technology.

We cannot use UE3's AI in our game, as it is neither a single player game nor a 64-128 mp game when AI calculations are being used differently. This is a MMO=Massively Multiplayer Online game, which means we support thousands of players and creatures simultaneous on the same server without any instances. This demands major AI calculations on our servers, something you simply don’t find to be used within the UE3 engine. Our AI must be built within the network solution and we cannot simply use any UE3 codes for this at all, it would never work that way.

When we get an update from Epic Games on the network solution our AI will get the opportunity to play similar to standards mmo AI players are used to see today, but with added unique AI features we have created for MO, which I think can be found to read about on these forums (?).

So to sum this up, we may not call it an Epic Patch anymore because it just spreads confusion, but it's a vital update from Epic Games which brings us the opportunity to evaluate ST 5.2, full flash support, some eye candy updates. And finally proper AI and will be able to show you our own “Trolls” in the form you saw them in our early alpha videos for those who remember. And again, it is not like the game stand still or cannot work at all without this update, it’s simply expanding some of our a bit more lacking areas in Mortal Online.

Thanks for reading.

[bck]

trolrain

[Tubbly]

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

Just to clear this one out as I see it’s creating some confusion.

There is indeed an Epic Patch, but I guess not in the form you think. It's simply a patch from Epic Games hence the name, "Epic Patch".
We have today an AI that is above average that’s being used in today’s MMO but with one huge problem, one of the parts that are giving our AI "eyes" is lacking, without them they will act "dumb" in the player’s eyes and in some cases end up invisible for some players. This is what Epic Games is doing for us, giving them eyes, so our AI can be used as it should.

Comparing our game/AI with any other UE3 based mmo/game is just a waste of time in here in this case at least, as it cannot be compared in any way on this topic. We are still using UE3.5 and Atlas, with NO instances at all. You cannot find this in any other mmo on the market today using our technology.

We cannot use UE3's AI in our game, as it is neither a single player game nor a 64-128 mp game when AI calculations are being used differently. This is a MMO=Massively Multiplayer Online game, which means we support thousands of players and creatures simultaneous on the same server without any instances. This demands major AI calculations on our servers, something you simply don’t find to be used within the UE3 engine. Our AI must be built within the network solution and we cannot simply use any UE3 codes for this at all, it would never work that way.

When we get an update from Epic Games on the network solution our AI will get the opportunity to play similar to standards mmo AI players are used to see today, but with added unique AI features we have created for MO, which I think can be found to read about on these forums (?).

So to sum this up, we may not call it an Epic Patch anymore because it just spreads confusion, but it's a vital update from Epic Games which brings us the opportunity to evaluate ST 5.2, full flash support, some eye candy updates. And finally proper AI and will be able to show you our own “Trolls” in the form you saw them in our early alpha videos for those who remember. And again, it is not like the game stand still or cannot work at all without this update, it’s simply expanding some of our a bit more lacking areas in Mortal Online.

Thanks for reading.

+10000 million

[Narrat]

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

Just to clear this one out as I see it’s creating some confusion.

There is indeed an Epic Patch, but I guess not in the form you think. It's simply a patch from Epic Games hence the name, "Epic Patch".
We have today an AI that is above average that’s being used in today’s MMO but with one huge problem, one of the parts that are giving our AI "eyes" is lacking, without them they will act "dumb" in the player’s eyes and in some cases end up invisible for some players. This is what Epic Games is doing for us, giving them eyes, so our AI can be used as it should.

Comparing our game/AI with any other UE3 based mmo/game is just a waste of time in here in this case at least, as it cannot be compared in any way on this topic. We are still using UE3.5 and Atlas, with NO instances at all. You cannot find this in any other mmo on the market today using our technology.

We cannot use UE3's AI in our game, as it is neither a single player game nor a 64-128 mp game when AI calculations are being used differently. This is a MMO=Massively Multiplayer Online game, which means we support thousands of players and creatures simultaneous on the same server without any instances. This demands major AI calculations on our servers, something you simply don’t find to be used within the UE3 engine. Our AI must be built within the network solution and we cannot simply use any UE3 codes for this at all, it would never work that way.

When we get an update from Epic Games on the network solution our AI will get the opportunity to play similar to standards mmo AI players are used to see today, but with added unique AI features we have created for MO, which I think can be found to read about on these forums (?).

So to sum this up, we may not call it an Epic Patch anymore because it just spreads confusion, but it's a vital update from Epic Games which brings us the opportunity to evaluate ST 5.2, full flash support, some eye candy updates. And finally proper AI and will be able to show you our own “Trolls” in the form you saw them in our early alpha videos for those who remember. And again, it is not like the game stand still or cannot work at all without this update, it’s simply expanding some of our a bit more lacking areas in Mortal Online.

Thanks for reading.

thanks for the explanation. I'm guessing you can't pass along Epic's eta?

...worth a shot, anyway.

[PyrateLV]

Originally Posted by Narrat

thanks for the explanation. I'm guessing you can't pass along Epic's eta?

...worth a shot, anyway.

Id be on the phone with Epic Games and be like "WTF?! We needed this Patch like yesterday!"

Thanks for the explanation Henrik.
I know what its like to have to wait on some other company to do something so you can expand yours.

[Lagoon]

Originally Posted by Narrat

thanks for the explanation. I'm guessing you can't pass along Epic's eta?

...worth a shot, anyway.

I think Epic Path's ETA can be guessed giving a look at MO's "deveopment" section for the next 3 patches. Since SV decided to add the first epic creature with the 6th september path, I suppose Epic told them the path is coming soon. So I suppose ETA is first half of september... maybe... I hope

Originally Posted by Pwntzyou

Speedtree brings amazing detail at low poly count to the playing field (Just look at the UDK demo map) It would completely add a new layer to MO's realism.

Yes, indeed speedtree brings amazing detail at low poly count... in a instanced tech demo without dynamic lighting, single player instead of massive multiplayer, with a small area, without any particle effects and so on... Ok, maybe I'm exagerating this a big, but you can't take such a tech demo as an example of what you can achieve using ST inside a game like MO.

ST isn't a magic "make the trees cool" button. I'ts a piece of software whic can be used in many ways according to the resources the game lets you use to have it work together with all the other systems in place. It can be tuned to have a wide range of effects, ranging from hugly sparse trees to wonderful fotorealistic trees.

If you have an idea about how heavy on gpu resources MO is, it should be easy for you to understand which side of that range the implementation of ST in MO will be. This doesn't mean it could have benefits, maybe even notable ones, on the look of the trees. But don't expect it to take the game's trees to the level of eye candy those tech demos show, cause it'll hardly happen.

[cfurlin]

Originally Posted by Bataille

They most certainly can't be any worse than the current ones.

Ack! Never make a statement like that...you may have inadvertently cursed us all...

[Ritual]

I have a question

What does adding flash have to do with the network solution and the intricacies of being scaled to an MMO architecture?

If other Unreal games have flash UI already, why would MO be a special case?

Maybe there should be more information on what is going on with the new UI and the complication involved.

I can understand the problem with the AI and needing a patch from Epic, but when it comes to the Flash support I cant see how it relates.

Just curious.

[Norelion]

Just trying to clarify with my modest knowledge on this - not necessarily true!


@Ritual: Let me try to explain. As far as I got it... Yes, you could add flash to the current build, but Scaleform wouldn't be included and it would be much faster and smoother to do with it. Now, for a small team like StarVault's it wasn't much of a priority to have a nice looking interface, especially when you'd have to invest dozens of hours of work into it.


Just trying to clarify with my modest knowledge on this - not necessarily true!

[Shinzon]

If anything then they can add flash mini-game into most of their things.

[Lagoon]

Originally Posted by Ritual

I have a question

What does adding flash have to do with the network solution and the intricacies of being scaled to an MMO architecture?

If other Unreal games have flash UI already, why would MO be a special case?

Maybe there should be more information on what is going on with the new UI and the complication involved.

I can understand the problem with the AI and needing a patch from Epic, but when it comes to the Flash support I cant see how it relates.

Just curious.

Yes, other games have a Scaleform API which lets devs use flash for the UI.
But you have to ask yourself how they got that API. I'm not sure, but I don't think they got it automagically included in the UE they got from Epic. They had to purchase a Scaleform license and add the support into che UE source code themselves. And this took the time. Time that SV decided so far to spend on other game systems.

Now Epic is going to patch Scaleform support in the newest build of UE and SV is going to acquire this support "freely". They saved development resources this way, they "just" had to wait.

SV wants to improve the UI in some aspects which are impossible to improve with the UI system they're using now (the one included in UE, to my knowledge). They want:

1) to have a more dynmic UI (to have things such as radial menus, UO-like drag&drop inventory system)

2) to have an UI easier to add elements to (to add things such as the mana bar, which they probably could already add, but would require more development time than with the Scaleform technology)

3) to include "minigames" to handle many skills in the game. For example cartography (paint you map with some tools), I suppose lockpicking (Oblivion-like lockpicking), probably crafting skills (hit the anvil with the hammer, reach the right temperature and so on...), maybe gathering and refining, hopefully stealing and so on...