Chat Interface

[Mats Persson]

Originally Posted by Ceosan

i wonder is its asking too much to be able to KILL the pigeons

Yes, unfortunately. My first thought was that the pigeons would indeed be "real" and visible to other players. And that you could kill them, of course. That sounded very realistic and cool.

But if you think about it, the "pigeons" are magical in the way that they can be sent to any name, that they then automatically track (it's their purpose in the game) - something that real pigeons could never do, of course. Now, lets say Guild A is ambushing Guild B. All Guild B has to do is send out pigeons that automatically track the opposing guild members and thereby reveal their location. This may sound like a cool feature indeed, but it would ruin all sneak-tactics and probably be known as pigeontracking or something

We could take this further and start to think about ways to prevent this pigeontracking, like options to forbid opposing guilds to send pigeons, by radically limiting the pigeons, or that you could only send pigeons to people that have a special pigeon-item that you have given them etc. But now we are starting to think like bad designers do as that is the exact opposite of the original intent with the pigeons: To be able to send a message to anyone anywhere. Remember?

It's better to let the pigeons be magical invisible pigeons. And then perhaps transfer the tracking mechanic to rare hawks and falcons instead, that can indeed be seen and killed

[Khyrsanth]

That Chat-System sound's perfect to me! *cheers*

You can still use Teamspeak, ICQ or whatever outside but it adds a LOT of ingame-feeling i think.

I also like the pigeon-idea, would be cool (but not necessary) if there would be a short animation of sending them away and arriving.

[Shaithis]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Sorry, haven't got time to read the whole thread. I will, later.

-There will be no global chat or channel.
-There will be guild-chat channels, once you have the appropriate "collective conscious"-upgrade for your guild-stone. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, as every other third-party communication-program will give you the same.
-There will be messaging (like sending a message to your friend to arrange a meeting) by sending a pigeon, but the pigeon will have a delay, making it worthless in battle or when quick communication is needed.
-There will be /whisper/tell to people nearby. But /whispers/tells may be overheard by people with good hearing skill or lip-reading skill.

WOW!

[BigAngryGiant]

The chat system sounds really cool!

[Beezer-1]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before or not. I haven't seen anything about it yet though.

One chat-related topic that is very important to many players is the presence of overhead chat text. Combine overhead chat text with no global chat and you have a far more immersive and believeable game environment.

When many people hear about this they imagine comicbook style overhead chat bubbles, which I agree don't look good at all. Most people here have a background playing UO and I think they did it very tastefully there, and it helped to make the game experience a lot more enjoyable. I hear it was also done well in AoC but I haven't played that so I can't comment.

The MO devs seem like smart, thoughtful people who actively solicit player feedback (which is amazing and I will give MO a try just because of that alone). So I'd like to hear their thoughts and plans on this particular topic. And of course the thoughts of the potential players as well.

[Vledich]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Yes, unfortunately. My first thought was that the pigeons would indeed be "real" and visible to other players. And that you could kill them, of course. That sounded very realistic and cool.

But if you think about it, the "pigeons" are magical in the way that they can be sent to any name, that they then automatically track (it's their purpose in the game) - something that real pigeons could never do, of course. Now, lets say Guild A is ambushing Guild B. All Guild B has to do is send out pigeons that automatically track the opposing guild members and thereby reveal their location. This may sound like a cool feature indeed, but it would ruin all sneak-tactics and probably be known as pigeontracking or something

We could take this further and start to think about ways to prevent this pigeontracking, like options to forbid opposing guilds to send pigeons, by radically limiting the pigeons, or that you could only send pigeons to people that have a special pigeon-item that you have given them etc. But now we are starting to think like bad designers do as that is the exact opposite of the original intent with the pigeons: To be able to send a message to anyone anywhere. Remember?

It's better to let the pigeons be magical invisible pigeons. And then perhaps transfer the tracking mechanic to rare hawks and falcons instead, that can indeed be seen and killed

Nice, its good to see MO has a great lead to develop.

Global Chat = Easy DoS attack (Denial of Service)

I still remember the WoW DoS attack with the global chat, lol thousands of players going mad in a few minutes hehe.

[Volkira]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

And then perhaps transfer the tracking mechanic to rare hawks and falcons instead, that can indeed be seen and killed

Now this is a nice little leak.

So the picture of the Khurite with the falcon on his shoulder isn't just art?

Oh sweet tracking birds in the game.

Horse Archery and tracking birds make Khurite look very interesting indeed.

Back to topic:

Thanks for clearing that up Mats.

The chat system sounds perfect.

[azazel]

*Your lip-reading skill allows you to listen in on the private conversation*
A: So yeah, did anything else happen yesterday? I thought I saw you and Stacy head out together?
B: Nah man, we were just out to take a smoke, nothing else of interest really - I wouldn't mind hooking up with her, but it doesn't seem like she's interested.
A: I dunno, she seemed pretty interested...
B: Hah, I wish. Anyway, did ya see the football game this evening? Daaa-amn that [Generic Football Player Name] is good.

C: /cry THEY ARE RUINING THE RP BY HAVING A PRIVATE CONVERSATION ABOUT A RL TOPIC!

Somehow, that doesn't really seem too immersive to me. While it's a funky idea, there are problems for you "die-hard", "realistic" roleplayers. I don't care if people hear about my RL problems I'm discussing with a RL friend, but I won't be held responsible for breaking other people's immersion.

Also, delayed messages on a global scale... Glad I'm using three computers, that way I can message my buddies over IM/Vent/TS instead. Of course, it depends on how harsh the delay is - 10-15 seconds is ok, maybe even half a minute, but longer than that and the system gets pretty useless. I appreciate the "realism" (in a fantasy game... *cough*), but there are also limits on how "hardcore" you want to get, before you start scaring the non-RPers away.

[Contortionist]

A question to the dev - why do you think people will use pidgeon feature if they will be able to use IRC chat instead?

[Rok]

Originally Posted by Contortionist

A question to the dev - why do you think people will use pidgeon feature if they will be able to use IRC chat instead?

This.

Make the game shutdown third party programs automatically, IMO, and include a well run VoiP.

Otherwise these features, I feel, will be broken and unbalanced, since players with vent/xfire/irc etc. will have all the communication they need, and players without will be bound within the walls. I'd really love to see this chat system work.

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/8...s-add-ons.html

[NoneSuch]

Rok that's a terrible idea if the game did that it could probably be classed as malware.

Cont I personally think that /Pigeon will be used to communicate with people whom you don't personally know well enough to put on your Xfire/msn/IRC. That trader you met with yesterday I doubt you'll ask for his MSN details or what IRC chat he visits.

Of course if you've got friends playing the game or guild mates you'll talk to them using 3rd party software but what's the problem with that? You'd be doing so anyway and after awhile of having a guild you'll be getting a /guild chat so it's not a problem.

In my opinion the devs aren't trying to stop you from talkling with friends. They're just trying to make social encounters a little more important.

[horkesh]

Regarding the lip reading skill - how will you raise that skill? Surely not by just randomly standing near people who are having private chat.

So I'm guessing it would be something like you facing the guy/girl talking to someone and activating the skill - thus raising it if successfull.

Question then would be - how do you prevent that from happening? Will we see everyone in a city standing right next to a wall and facing it so no one would be able to see your lips? Or maybe there will be some other stat that would counter the lip reading skill?

[Balderon]

Originally Posted by horkesh

Regarding the lip reading skill - how will you raise that skill? Surely not by just randomly standing near people who are having private chat.

So I'm guessing it would be something like you facing the guy/girl talking to someone and activating the skill - thus raising it if successfull.

Question then would be - how do you prevent that from happening? Will we see everyone in a city standing right next to a wall and facing it so no one would be able to see your lips? Or maybe there will be some other stat that would counter the lip reading skill?

It will probably be very difficult to learn this skill, and probably be a limit per min/hour/day. I'm sure the developers will find a good way, if you look at all the things Mats said you'll find out that they aren't stupid at all.

[Rok]

Originally Posted by NoneSuch

Rok that's a terrible idea if the game did that it could probably be classed as malware.

Why, because it doesn't let players circumvent their game designs?

Originally Posted by NoneSuch

Cont I personally think that /Pigeon will be used to communicate with people whom you don't personally know well enough to put on your Xfire/msn/IRC. That trader you met with yesterday I doubt you'll ask for his MSN details or what IRC chat he visits.

Wrong. There will be realm mIRCs, zone mIRCS, trader mIRCs, i-killed-you-nub mIRCS. There will be realm ventrilos, and successful vendors will probably post up their own vents in mIRC just to advertise.

Originally Posted by NoneSuch

Of course if you've got friends playing the game or guild mates you'll talk to them using 3rd party software but what's the problem with that? You'd be doing so anyway and after awhile of having a guild you'll be getting a /guild chat so it's not a problem.

The problem is that it circumvents intended game mechanics.

It's basically cheating.

Originally Posted by NoneSuch

In my opinion the devs aren't trying to stop you from talkling with friends. They're just trying to make social encounters a little more important.

I disagree. I think they are trying to stop certain communications if it doesn't make sense in a realistic environment. Personally, I think they'd cut out guild chat if that didn't have to listen to all the bitching that would ensue; so they settled with a small compromise.


Oh, one last question.

Are gold spammers going to be able to pidgeon spam people? I know seeing a pidgeon fly in is gonna make me happy, like getting a new text message, or letter in the mail. But seeing a pidgeon fly in only to reveal "YuanSun's Feeds His children campaign starts at 89.97usd..." will be such a let down.

[neoterrar]

I would have to disagree with nearly every one and the devs on this one.

The main thing that makes an MMO an MMO is the social aspect.

Ever log on to a dead or dying game and wonder..am I the only one playing... This is what happens without global chat, /msg, etc.

One thing this will encourage is megaguilds just for the ease of communication with a large player base.

RP should be a choice and not forced on you. You need to balance ease of use with other issues.

98% of my in game communication in a game has nothing to do with game specifics (wheres the siege, player x is running to X,Y) but more a social communication. You remove this and you remove my willingness to play a limited game.

---
And really...lipreading??? Sometimes realism goes way too far.

[NoneSuch]

You still will be able to socialise you'll just have to visit Taverns or town squares to speak to people. This game isn't designed for everyone, it just might not fit your prefrence.

[Wicked1]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

It's better to let the pigeons be magical invisible pigeons. And then perhaps transfer the tracking mechanic to rare hawks and falcons instead, that can indeed be seen and killed

brilliant!

no global/zone chat is great for many reasons. and done away with in a way that makes perfect sense. gotta say i love the direction dev's heading with MO on multiple levels.

thx for the insight Mats

[The_Bugaboo]

Originally Posted by neoterrar

I would have to disagree with nearly every one and the devs on this one.

The main thing that makes an MMO an MMO is the social aspect.

Ever log on to a dead or dying game and wonder..am I the only one playing... This is what happens without global chat, /msg, etc.

One thing this will encourage is megaguilds just for the ease of communication with a large player base.

RP should be a choice and not forced on you. You need to balance ease of use with other issues.

Agree 100% with this.

/sigh time to dust off IRC, ICQ, MSN and Vent.

I have a question for all who have had immersion ruined by global chat in other games: why havent you disabled them?

[Stof]

Let's use the Steam overlay + a Internet Explorer IRC client and all is well

[Wrafe]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Yes, unfortunately. My first thought was that the pigeons would indeed be "real" and visible to other players. And that you could kill them, of course. That sounded very realistic and cool.

But if you think about it, the "pigeons" are magical in the way that they can be sent to any name, that they then automatically track (it's their purpose in the game) - something that real pigeons could never do, of course. Now, lets say Guild A is ambushing Guild B. All Guild B has to do is send out pigeons that automatically track the opposing guild members and thereby reveal their location. This may sound like a cool feature indeed, but it would ruin all sneak-tactics and probably be known as pigeontracking or something

We could take this further and start to think about ways to prevent this pigeontracking, like options to forbid opposing guilds to send pigeons, by radically limiting the pigeons, or that you could only send pigeons to people that have a special pigeon-item that you have given them etc. But now we are starting to think like bad designers do as that is the exact opposite of the original intent with the pigeons: To be able to send a message to anyone anywhere. Remember?

It's better to let the pigeons be magical invisible pigeons. And then perhaps transfer the tracking mechanic to rare hawks and falcons instead, that can indeed be seen and killed

That was my concern as well.

Invisible pigeons sounds fine. However, how do you sell the fact that your player is sending out a pigeon w/o them ever actually seeing a pigeon?

My solution to keep the pigeon ingame is to just have it fly in some random direction and disappears when it leaves the player's clip range. Birds don't always start off going the right direction before they get the correct heading as well; so it actually makes sense.

[Wolfhammer]

Originally Posted by Brodie

Also the no global chat is great for one other major issue! GOLD SELLERS! It is going to be much more difficult for them to sell their gold without global chat and /tell.

I also hope they don't have a /who implemented as well. Hoping they will have a friends list at the least though

Good point

[Robinvi]

Chat system sounds very interesting, but im not sure i can believe that all this wall make it in to the actual game (lip reading and hearing skill thing at least). I hope you do though.

[Stump]

Wrong. There will be realm mIRCs, zone mIRCS, trader mIRCs, i-killed-you-nub mIRCS. There will be realm ventrilos, and successful vendors will probably post up their own vents in mIRC just to advertise.

For old and experience players, yes, there will be, but not for the minor ones.

The problem is that it circumvents intended game mechanics.

It's basically cheating.

Lets just get rialistic. It's not keeped as cheating by any side, nor devs nor players. So it's not cheating. All these years players are using a chat programs for their guilds to simulate the real talk thing, for a better immersion and teamplay, so this is enchances what game cannot provide. And this is what is innevitable that players will use.

I disagree. I think they are trying to stop certain communications if it doesn't make sense in a realistic environment. Personally, I think they'd cut out guild chat if that didn't have to listen to all the bitching that would ensue; so they settled with a small compromise.

Now this is sounds a little silly, don't you think? To cut off some chats only because roleplayers don't want to see chats and text that just don't make sense to their roleplaying? I think this adds only as a the top of the iceberg to the whole no-global-chat thing. I would encourage you people then read Global Chat thread and 3rd-party vs in-game communications threads.
There is much more bigger reasons for that people.

I have a question for all who have had immersion ruined by global chat in other games: why havent you disabled them?

Not in all games we can disable them. And if we would disable them, we probably would be in a disadvantage. It's like asking why don't you people would use 3rd person view instead of 1st person view, when you are able to choose both?
No global chat makes people to go and interact with players, to looks for a blacksmith or that tamer so you could buy/sell things. In player driven economy trading is innevitable part of gameplay. Now you see live city, people walking and talking, that's how it should be. With global chat cities will be like in Lineage2, the spots for people to sit and write/read/trade in global chat. Now this would be awfull. In old UO days, you could always run to the blacksmith shop and see there few blacksmithers sitting and willing to sell their goods, then you would even end up having your own supplyers and such. This interaction creates not only more friendly enviroment for Roleplayers, but also creates stronger community, more realistic economy and enchances the gameplay you wouldn't get in the way of having Global Chat. As someone said, MMORPG's are all about community and I completely agree with him, that's why I think global chat is evil.

[Rok]

Originally Posted by Stump

For old and experience players, yes, there will be, but not for the minor ones.

Correct; and this creates an imbalanced playing field, giving some an advantage over others. This is why I feel the text-based chat should be modified, or third party communication shold be removed. Balance the playing field.

Originally Posted by Stump

Lets just get rialistic. It's not keeped as cheating by any side, nor devs nor players. So it's not cheating. All these years players are using a chat programs for their guilds to simulate the real talk thing, for a better immersion and teamplay, so this is enchances what game cannot provide. And this is what is innevitable that players will use.

No matter how many of us (myself included) support the use of third party communication, bypassing intended game mechanics is cheating. You can justify the need for things all you want, and how long people have been donig it in other MMO's, but if your bypass an intended game mechanic you're cheating. I, for one, do not like cheating. If you can rationalize cheating in your mind, that's up to you.

Originally Posted by Stump

Now this is sounds a little silly, don't you think? To cut off some chats only because roleplayers don't want to see chats and text that just don't make sense to their roleplaying? I think this adds only as a the top of the iceberg to the whole no-global-chat thing. I would encourage you people then read Global Chat thread and 3rd-party vs in-game communications threads.
There is much more bigger reasons for that people.

What does this have to do with roleplayers? SV is the team that decided on not having global chat and zone chat, and having proximity based whispers (with the occlusion of messenger birds). This was not called forth "only because roleplayers don't want to see chats" as you so hastily presume, it was their decision to help create player interaction and immersion.

I have read all of those threads.

The point is, by not having global chats and zone chats, you'll have people alt+tabbing all the time to read their mIRC and Vent-Hop. If you're going to allow third-party programs, adapt the text-based chat to follow the same rules as available software to balance the playing field.

Or include your own comprehensive, In-Game VoiP system that follows the same rules as the text-based chat system.

Level the playing field as much as possible, so we can narrow the outcome of battles, large and small, to skill.

Communication is a skill.

Originally Posted by Stump

As someone said, MMORPG's are all about community and I completely agree with him, that's why I think global chat is evil.

I agree completely with him, as well. And you about global chat.

Allowing software like Vent and mIRC will be, basically, allowing global chat, but forcing players to alt+tab to do it; what is the point of this? Either allow global/zone/whisper chat to mirror this software, or disallow the software.

[Stump]

Originally Posted by Rok

I agree completely with him, as well. And you about global chat.

Allowing software like Vent and mIRC will be, basically, allowing global chat, but forcing players to alt+tab to do it; what is the point of this? Either allow global/zone/whisper chat to mirror this software, or disallow the software.

Oh, so all the text above was worthless, because in the end we agree :P

I myself never bored to sit in IRC global chats or in-game global chats. I mostly sit in Teamspeak of our guild chat, but there are only 10-50 players speaking, and all of them are friends, not randoms around the world. Only some of the players will use IRC chats, while minority players will enjoy the game, and the minority is shaping the game world. So, yeah, not putting in-game global chat would help alot, while some people will still use IRC's. Now allowing to use these 3rd party programs or not allowing makes completely no difference.

[Andrei Georgescu]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Yes, unfortunately. My first thought was that the pigeons would indeed be "real" and visible to other players. And that you could kill them, of course. That sounded very realistic and cool.

But if you think about it, the "pigeons" are magical in the way that they can be sent to any name, that they then automatically track (it's their purpose in the game) - something that real pigeons could never do, of course. Now, lets say Guild A is ambushing Guild B. All Guild B has to do is send out pigeons that automatically track the opposing guild members and thereby reveal their location. This may sound like a cool feature indeed, but it would ruin all sneak-tactics and probably be known as pigeontracking or something

We could take this further and start to think about ways to prevent this pigeontracking, like options to forbid opposing guilds to send pigeons, by radically limiting the pigeons, or that you could only send pigeons to people that have a special pigeon-item that you have given them etc. But now we are starting to think like bad designers do as that is the exact opposite of the original intent with the pigeons: To be able to send a message to anyone anywhere. Remember?

It's better to let the pigeons be magical invisible pigeons. And then perhaps transfer the tracking mechanic to rare hawks and falcons instead, that can indeed be seen and killed

well you could make the pigeon an actual seeable/killable thing but he doesnt necessarily have to go into the direction that the actual message is going to....maybe you could make it so the pigeon flies straight up or in any random direction and disappears after awhile

[Uthuk]

Personally I think you put resources into a virtually meaningless "gesture" since everyone will use other means to communicate.

So, why put in effort in something that is already a lost battle and that has the added bad side of makeing it harder for people playing a "massively multiplayer online role playing game" to befriend new people?

Without decent communication options in a modern online game of today, the game will just fail.

Edit: Besides haveing the discussed crippled chat systems will at least prevent the game from being anything near massively multiplayer.

[NoneSuch]

I don't think it's taking them any extra resources not including a few chat channels. Actually removing global is probably saving resources more than anything.

To me it seems people's idea of a MMO is a big chat system more of an actual game involving masses of people. If I wanted to chat about the latest movie's, peoples opinion on Wow and how fat my mum is I can use an IRC channel or visit a forum.

Let's face it that's what people use Global chat for. Do also remember that this will make guilds just that much more important as they'll have accesss to the nearest thing which could be called a global chat ingame.

[The_Bugaboo]

Originally Posted by NoneSuch

To me it seems people's idea of a MMO is a big chat system more of an actual game involving masses of people. If I wanted to chat about the latest movie's, peoples opinion on Wow and how fat my mum is I can use an IRC channel or visit a forum.

Let's face it that's what people use Global chat for. .

Onoez people are going to chat with eachother, have fun And play the game!? You know thats a good thing lol.

And those who dont want it dont have to participate, and if you particiapte and find someone obnoxious you should be able to /ignore/mute that person.

Having options to disbale global chat and ignore ppl would be a nice compromise to having global chat.

I think its strange to try and make communication a hassle.

[Beryls]

I'm wondering how many people crying for global chat and arguing that Voips will be used anyway, played OU or begining EQ?
I remember logging on on sundays to go to the Bazaar in EQ, in the tunnel between qeynos and FP soo see if there was something cool for me to buy. I remember running through butcherblock with my newbie wood elf and not understanding any of the short PC's because they were speaking another language. Once i figured that out i spent a couple of weeks, running around getting primers and hanging out asking others to help teach me their languages. It was a pain in the ass, but it was fun and cool as hell! These are the types of things thats got me and i suspect a few others interested in MO. Wether u play for 2 hours or 20 hours from log in to log out this game is going to be challenging, but that makes it exciting to play. and if you look at the game hopping of recient years, alot of gamers, older gamers maybe, are looking for that missing old excitement.

but thats just how I feel, not right, not wrong, just my take on it

[NoneSuch]

Originally Posted by The_Bugaboo

Onoez people are going to chat with eachother, have fun And play the game!? You know thats a good thing lol.

And those who dont want it dont have to participate, and if you particiapte and find someone obnoxious you should be able to /ignore/mute that person.

Having options to disbale global chat and ignore ppl would be a nice compromise to having global chat.

I think its strange to try and make communication a hassle.

It's not supposed to make communication a hassle. It's supposed to encourage you to communicate with people actually in your area not on the other side of the map. It's trying to actually promote a local community, with local trading and a game where you have to actually use some intelligence/diplomacy to get something you want rather than just spamming a channel with "WTB WTB WTB"

[Cradlejoe]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

It's better to let the pigeons be magical invisible pigeons. And then perhaps transfer the tracking mechanic to rare hawks and falcons instead, that can indeed be seen and killed

I've got a way so we can see the pigeons and have all the fun of that
When you send a message a pigeon jumps out of your hand, Starts to run on the spot like in cartoons and then when hes built up enough smoke he will shoot off at a speed untrackable by the human(Elf/Half-Orc/[Anyother non-human race]) eye. Also sounds will be added after updates.

On a serious note:
If we are allowed to use Hawks and Falcons as trackers (and they are fully despatchable) does that mean that birds (and other avians possibly) are in as pets? and we won't have to put up with standard ground based pets?

[Andrei Georgescu]

Originally Posted by Cradlejoe

I've got a way so we can see the pigeons and have all the fun of that
When you send a message a pigeon jumps out of your hand, Starts to run on the spot like in cartoons and then when hes built up enough smoke he will shoot off at a speed untrackable by the human(Elf/Half-Orc/[Anyother non-human race]) eye. Also sounds will be added after updates.

On a serious note:
If we are allowed to use Hawks and Falcons as trackers (and they are fully despatchable) does that mean that birds (and other avians possibly) are in as pets? and we won't have to put up with standard ground based pets?

yea thanks for taking my idea..

[Synadye]

I have a question for those people that say that global chat reduces their ability to socialize. How often do you hold a conversation in global chat? If you are one of the #$%@ that actually uses this channel to talk to people that you will probably have no interaction with whatsoever, then I don't see how you would appreciate any aspect of this game.

The only possible uses for global chat is spamming, complaining, and trading.

I am all for a system that completely eliminates the spams and complaints that everyone throws out in global. Trading though, that is a little different. With the system of item recognition that they implemented, the only time that you would be selling something that you know is good is when you find something better, or when you craft something that is top quality. If you are a crafter, you will likely be known if you have high quality merchandise. As for the item that you found a better one of, if it is really worth selling, use something like Ebay to do your dirty work.

If items are rare enough that you will only come across a better item over a long period of time, it should take a while to try and unload it if you want a price that is really high. There is nothing stopping you, i assume, from holding an auction in town for those that are interested in buying it. If items are not rare enough to warrent you taking the time to get a good deal from selling it, then it isn't worth selling.

As for the banning of third party software, it is legally impossible for them to do that so just get over the idea. If they were somehow able to limit the use of such software, the simple solution would be a second computer which I am sure those hardcore gamers who use the third party programs would not hessitate to set-up. I personally would find no trouble in setting a laptop on my desk next to my pc so I could still use Vent/TS and mIRC.

I do agree with Rok that the use of this would be constituted as cheating regardless of the acceptance of it. This is not going to stop it or make it less acceptable, so you might as well drop that idea also because it is going nowhere.

NoneSuch has pretty much hit the nail on the head with his take on this. removal of global chat will do nothing in regard to hampering your socialization with your friends. You do not socialize with your freinds in global chat, and if you do socialize with them in global, why do you want to force everyone to listen to your conversation. Are you really that desperate for attention? There are plenty of other ways that the devs have implemented that still allows you to sociallize with people. It shouldn't be that big of a deal that you can't be the center of attention of the entire game. If that is what you are trying to acheive by advocating for global chat then I think that you need to find a game that is oriented toward other people who are desperate to be noticed, and not try to ruin another good game.

[danl9rm]

Originally Posted by Contortionist

A question to the dev - why do you think people will use pidgeon feature if they will be able to use IRC chat instead?

they don't!
they don't want the bottom left of ur screen flooded by race chat though with tons of spam about smoking weed. it really makes it feel like everyone ur playing with is a tard even if only the tards are the ones making the non-stop posts.

if u have real life friends, or a guild that uses vent, ur probably using that kind of chat system anyway.

this in-game chat system sounds excellent.
bravo.

[bigboss211]

Rok and Nonesuch, you are both very wise. I only wish more were like you. I can guess that you were both in old UO. Now that thats out of the way lemme get on with this thing.

Global chat is horrible. I think people are spoiled and dont treat mmos as games anymore. They take it too seriously. In old UO every single city had an active BUT different communty. many stayed planted in the cities they started in taking "jobs". meaning they cut trees and made bows or killed animals to make leather armor or went to the mining city of Minoc to strike it big with the ingots and go downt he long road of becomming a grandmaster smith.

You could travel from town to town and see some of the same but some new people. it was a pleasant feeling. i felt as if.. hmm i dunno... i had actually TRAVELED! thats the problem with global chat. you can make the world as big as you want but if you have global chat your world will be one loud mouth little village. constantly spammed with "wtb wts lulz noob and all the other classics we all love so much. that completely takes away froma ny sense of travel and absolutely destroys the reason to go anywhere accept for the biggest city like on wow where people only go to Orgrimar/Stonehelm.

To me there was nothing like getting on and logging on to great lakes and going to the Yew Empath Abby/Bank to see if any of my friends were on. Did i need global chat or /w? no. did i want them? nope. i was against that stuff before it existed. And about this "guilds need it" crap. ya know what? we did without it in old uo and it made for a better game. events were planned and strategies used. guildmasters not on? we didnt vent chat him we went to the next highest in command and talked to him. this is moot as guilds had a charter stating all events i believe.

all im saying with this great wall of text is one simple thing. global and regional chat and 3rd party programs are not needed. you everyone would just not use those for a few days i think wed all find that Mortal Online at its core is a "Game" and it is meant to be played as a game and not taken so seriously as to have to feel you need to be in constant contact with 1000s of people constantly. ive said it once and ill say it again. That makes me feel like a Borg.

[Andrei Georgescu]

i dont understand how you guys are arguing over something as obvious as general chat, it has no purpose other than pissing people off and giving away info (especially in a game like this where info matter) those who say oh theyre going to use a third party program, yea they might but 1 you cant stop that, 2 its only with their guild/friends, 3 not every1 will, 4 cuts down spam by like a gajillion....now what we should be talking about is if pigeons should be visible, i say yes but you cant track the direction they are going in

[Stamati]

Originally Posted by bigboss211

Rok and Nonesuch, you are both very wise. I only wish more were like you. I can guess that you were both in old UO. Now that thats out of the way lemme get on with this thing.

Global chat is horrible. I think people are spoiled and dont treat mmos as games anymore. They take it too seriously. In old UO every single city had an active BUT different communty. many stayed planted in the cities they started in taking "jobs". meaning they cut trees and made bows or killed animals to make leather armor or went to the mining city of Minoc to strike it big with the ingots and go downt he long road of becomming a grandmaster smith.

You could travel from town to town and see some of the same but some new people. it was a pleasant feeling. i felt as if.. hmm i dunno... i had actually TRAVELED! thats the problem with global chat. you can make the world as big as you want but if you have global chat your world will be one loud mouth little village. constantly spammed with "wtb wts lulz noob and all the other classics we all love so much. that completely takes away froma ny sense of travel and absolutely destroys the reason to go anywhere accept for the biggest city like on wow where people only go to Orgrimar/Stonehelm.

To me there was nothing like getting on and logging on to great lakes and going to the Yew Empath Abby/Bank to see if any of my friends were on. Did i need global chat or /w? no. did i want them? nope. i was against that stuff before it existed. And about this "guilds need it" crap. ya know what? we did without it in old uo and it made for a better game. events were planned and strategies used. guildmasters not on? we didnt vent chat him we went to the next highest in command and talked to him. this is moot as guilds had a charter stating all events i believe.

all im saying with this great wall of text is one simple thing. global and regional chat and 3rd party programs are not needed. you everyone would just not use those for a few days i think wed all find that Mortal Online at its core is a "Game" and it is meant to be played as a game and not taken so seriously as to have to feel you need to be in constant contact with 1000s of people constantly. ive said it once and ill say it again. That makes me feel like a Borg.

ok.....im confusled. You said people are spoiled and are not treating MMOs like games anymore, ok. Then you said people used to stay planted in citieas and had 'jobs' like smithing and lumber jacking and that people had to really travel..This does not sound like a 'game' it sounds like work, which is what people are getting away from by playing games. As for saying that you do not need a tell system, its ridiculous. Games have changed and are not like UO anymore. Sure, i played UO and it was fun because, it was the first. The gaming community has moved on and the notion of an MMO not needing a tell system or a HUD navigation system for that matter is quite ignorant. No one likes people spamming on global chat or city chat. But people also dont like the notion of not being able to communicate instantly with their friends and other players. Times have changed and this game IS not going to make it with such a roleplaying radical view. People will play, but they will mostly be the hardcore roleplayers which leaves little room for the casual player, which is the majority of the MMO community these day. It doesnt need global chat, MMOS never did, but city chat and /tell is now an essential part of communication throughout MMOs. It is not too much to ask for instant communication. As for those that say it will ruin roleplaying, BAH! Its still a game, no matter how much you want it to be real.

[Synadye]

Originally Posted by Stamati

Its still a game, no matter how much you want it to be real.

Why does everyone opposed to anything that does not adhere to the current trend in grind MMOs with this argument. You are making the assumption that a game is something that requires constant contact with everyone and that it is impossible to do this outside of a game "because it is reality."

Originally Posted by Stamati

It doesnt need global chat, MMOS never did, but city chat and /tell is now an essential part of communication throughout MMOs.

It is nice that you made this concesion, since it means you are almost completely for the system that is being implemented in MO.

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Sorry, haven't got time to read the whole thread. I will, later.

-There will be no global chat or channel.
-There will be guild-chat channels, once you have the appropriate "collective conscious"-upgrade for your guild-stone. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, as every other third-party communication-program will give you the same.
-There will be messaging (like sending a message to your friend to arrange a meeting) by sending a pigeon, but the pigeon will have a delay, making it worthless in battle or when quick communication is needed.
-There will be /whisper/tell to people nearby. But /whispers/tells may be overheard by people with good hearing skill or lip-reading skill.

The only problem for you would be the non-instantaneous messaging, but does it really matter if the delay is going to be fairly short? The map on release isn't going to be that big. I read 60km^2 somewhere but i dont know if that is actually right. Do you really need to have a converstion with instant response if you are not going to be actually playing with the person. I don't think it would matter if a message had a 15 second delay if it isn't important enough for you to play with that person. If you really want to chat about something outside of the game, use a thirdparty software or god forbid you might actually call them.

Or is it that you are worried that while you are sitting in the forest picking your flowers you wont have anything to keep your mind off of how bored you are?

The only real need that I see for messaging is to contact your friend about where to meet eachother. If you are only using the game as a chat program, please just use a chat program.

Originally Posted by Stamati

This does not sound like a 'game' it sounds like work, which is what people are getting away from by playing games.

Do you really hate your job that much? There are people, myself included, that actually like our jobs. I play games because I enjoy doing it, not to try to find some way to escape from reality. I enjoy exploring within games. I use it to challenge myself by trying to find ways of beating the system, even outside of beta phase (which I do quite often, broke major aspects of a couple games).

People do like crafting. There is more a of a sense of accomplishment attached to it since you can make things that you can use and give to other people to use. It helps to connect players to a game by allowing them to create the content. It doesn't matter whether it seems like work because that is something that people enjoy.

Originally Posted by Andrei Georgescu

now what we should be talking about is if pigeons should be visible, i say yes but you cant track the direction they are going in

Yes we should talk about the pigeons, but it seems like they may have made up their minds already. There is one thing that I would like to know about them though...

Are you still able to use a message pigeon when you are underground? I guess the bird could get out... but still it doesn't seem very plosable for them to be able to be used. This detracts on the whole realism thing if I can recieve a message by bird if im spelunking in some cave or wandering in the sewers of a forgoten city.

Well, that was long...

[Andrei Georgescu]

[/quote]Yes we should talk about the pigeons, but it seems like they may have made up their minds already. There is one thing that I would like to know about them though...

Are you still able to use a message pigeon when you are underground? I guess the bird could get out... but still it doesn't seem very plosable for them to be able to be used. This detracts on the whole realism thing if I can recieve a message by bird if im spelunking in some cave or wandering in the sewers of a forgoten city.

Well, that was long...[/quote]
well they could get out however you did or even easier since theyre small