Map Of Nave Released - Page 2

**Mats Persson** · 14th January 2012, 16:02

Oh. Uhm.

Ok, I've no idea how that map ended up here, but that's one of the very first maps I did for MO many years ago, according to Henriks initial layout. Believe it or not, some of the features are actually still accurate

Some of you may know how much I hate to publish lore outside of the actual game, especially if that lore doesn't have an "author" and is taken out of context (I'm not speaking of commonly known lore though such as generic cultural/racial backgrounds etc. Those should have been up there ages ago.). But it's possible I find this even worse; behind-the-scenes material from past work-in-production, that is no longer correct. Especially if there's no updated, official version of the material in question. I mean, if there was such a thing as a published official map of Nave (maybe of Tindremic origin), then this map could perhaps be interesting from a real-world production perspective i.e. "how we developed Mortal Online". But as it is now, it is only confusing and may even spoil certain aspects of the lore.

To be perfectly clear: no in-game character has ever drawn a map like this one. Therefore it isn't even correct from an in-game historical perspective, i.e. "this is how a certain civilization used to think Nave looked like at one point in time".

The "author" issue is especially apparent in the naming convention. When naming stuff in MO for publishing, I usually consider using one or more out of four “naming layers”:

The original (or transliterated) name that are used by the people “possessing”, living close to or harboring the thing in question. For instance Amaruk Nuur, which is a transliterated Khurite name meaning “Wolf Lake”. Sometimes this name is the only one in circulation, meaning most other cultures have accepted the name and few varieties or translations exist.
The local name coming from the “author” of the material. Thus, a Tindremene drawing a map of Myrland could choose to use either or both the Tindremic name Laak Meditullus (Lake Middle), or, if it's commonly used, the “original” Amaruk Nuur.
The author translates the name into his or her language, which is common if there is no local name for the thing in question. Usually this is done by first writing the original name, and then the translated name. This would mean Amaruk Nuur got the translation Laak Lupus (Lake Wolf).
The name is translated directly into English, no matter the in-game varieties.

Item 4 is the most complicated, lore-wise. The game simply wouldn't be playable if the majority of NPC's were to speak in their native tongue (not to mention the insane amount of work it would take to develop 15+ languages well enough for NPC's to be able to speak them on a regular basis). So the player needs to get “translated” messages and names, and those come in English. However, translating everything to English wouldn't be a good option either as I want the in-game names and languages to be important, and they contribute a great deal to the immersion. But where do we draw the line?

The rules are not set in stone, and I wouldn't want them to be because I like to be flexible. But this also means an NPC could be saying things like “I've heard there's a lot of Gold and Cuprum near the Great Cave in Gabaria”. Which of course really doesn't make any sense from a language perspective. My best suggestion for a solution to this is imagining characters and players in-game to have an “international auxiliary language” or common tongue. However this language is considered rather dirty and lowbrow, similar to Vulgar Latin. Most people speak this relatively new language (of which all the words are automatically translated to English for us players) good enough to communicate, but mix it with native and/or “finer” words to sound more educated, authoritative etc.

Oh.. sorry, I got really side-tracked there. Map names!
Anyway. The names on the map are not canonized in any way (according to the above) as the map has no author, and several of them are placeholders. Not to mention huge parts of the geography have moved around and transformed quite a bit. Main changes are of course:

Spoiler for Separation:

And among other major things, the name Lykia doesn't exist anymore. Or rather, the problem is that the name Lykia does exist, in the real world. Which could make for a great tie-in/connection, if it wasn't for irl Lykia having nothing to do with the in-game continent whatsoever. Furthermore, the Alvarin language wasn't really developed at that point. So a lot of renaming have been going on in that region, as a few of you have noticed.

If possible, I will return with a few scraps on the sea-fall and other things later. And yes, as some of you have pointed out, yes, the in-game sky is still a placeholder.

Vulpeculae · 14th January 2012, 16:45

Missed these kind of posts from you Mats!

Tizio · 14th January 2012, 17:13

I missed you Mats *_*

Raknar · 14th January 2012, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulpeculae

Missed these kind of posts from you Mats!

Yes we did

Give us more!

Kuroi · 14th January 2012, 17:57

love you mats!

HrdkrH4x0r · 14th January 2012, 18:18

Thank for the info Mats. The original picture actually came from Henrik's twitter. BTW what do you mean when you say Lykia exists in game but not irl?

Raknar · 14th January 2012, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by HrdkrH4x0r

Thank for the info Mats. The original picture actually came from Henrik's twitter. BTW what do you mean when you say Lykia exists in game but not irl?

He said the opposite, because it exists IRL the name was changed

Kuroi · 14th January 2012, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by HrdkrH4x0r

what do you mean when you say Lykia exists in game but not irl?

mmh from his words i read that it exists irl but not in game ...

"the problem is that the name Lykia does exist, in the real world."

edit: just found this:

" Turchia - Lykia "

"Lyija, Likija, la Turchia"

Turchia is the italian word for Turkey (the country ofc lol)

deathshroud · 14th January 2012, 18:47

I think you should link up branth (nordveld) with the left side of herabalter sealing in the inner sea and fixing the obvious issues with the different ocean levels. I made a quick map as an example.

regarding the issue with a seperation in oceans, i would then create a series of shelves at tactons fault that eventually rach the lower ocean, with a harbour city atop tactons fault used for docking and transfering goods from a ship at the inner sea to one at the outer sea using cranes and pullys similar to gk mines

regarding lykia or whatever it will be called, i would make the northen side to steep to access the continent and instead have a long rope bridge from the stairs of echidna to the north west corner of lykia.
This would turn the myrland jungle into an expressway for people headed to and from lykia. Players would then either use this passage or travel by boat from toxai to larien.

Wabbajack · 14th January 2012, 20:15

Shiit you made that map? Pro. I like it

deathshroud · 14th January 2012, 20:19

well i just edited mats map

Wabbajack · 14th January 2012, 20:21

yes well thats what I mean

HrdkrH4x0r · 14th January 2012, 21:36

I really like it Deathshroud. Mats, Henrik, Paratus, do we have a current map yet?

psychobilly · 14th January 2012, 21:36

Cool stuff Mats.

Now please explain how sea level works irl and how it works in game.

Odazland · 15th January 2012, 01:50

Mats <3

Shinzon · 15th January 2012, 08:24

Since you agree that a lot of the cultural lore on the races should have been released "Ages Ago", can you please at least comment on some of the speculation going on in this thread. Even though you don't like to "reveal" anything, I think that we are long overdue for some proper lore injections.

The last official updates toward any sort of MO literature where a very long time ago. Never mind that your post effectively discredits the map as any sort of hard hinge for any type of lore, making it irrelevant in the long term. The only use that map gets now, is to try and draw out conjecture out of it based on the current development process.

Pompeii · 15th January 2012, 13:06

I agree with Shinzon on the lore injection, it needs to get up on the website as a cookie while people wait for the Awakening.

Retepet · 15th January 2012, 13:34

....wait.... this game has lore ? :P

just kidding ... but really, there's simply not enough lore in-game ... I don't really care for textwalls on the website tbh, lore in-game makes atmosphere, not somewhere in a forum

Wabbajack · 15th January 2012, 17:48

Mats srsly... give the npcs real names. Storage?Uility vendor? Makes no sense from a rp prespective.

Xenia · 16th January 2012, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wabbajack

Mats srsly... give the npcs real names. Storage?Uility vendor? Makes no sense from a rp prespective.

i like Harrison Jones

Kuroi · 16th January 2012, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

And yes, as some of you have pointed out, yes, the in-game sky is still a placeholder.

cool, i hope for a sky even better than the beta one!

Saphirix · 16th January 2012, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinzon

Since you agree that a lot of the cultural lore on the races should have been released "Ages Ago", can you please at least comment on some of the speculation going on in this thread. Even though you don't like to "reveal" anything, I think that we are long overdue for some proper lore injections.

The last official updates toward any sort of MO literature where a very long time ago. Never mind that your post effectively discredits the map as any sort of hard hinge for any type of lore, making it irrelevant in the long term. The only use that map gets now, is to try and draw out conjecture out of it based on the current development process.

I agree, would be very nice to get some lore that contaqins some information about the life/world oustide Myrland

Raknar · 16th January 2012, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinzon

Since you agree that a lot of the cultural lore on the races should have been released "Ages Ago", can you please at least comment on some of the speculation going on in this thread. Even though you don't like to "reveal" anything, I think that we are long overdue for some proper lore injections.

The last official updates toward any sort of MO literature where a very long time ago. Never mind that your post effectively discredits the map as any sort of hard hinge for any type of lore, making it irrelevant in the long term. The only use that map gets now, is to try and draw out conjecture out of it based on the current development process.

+1

JangoxDarkblade · 17th January 2012, 07:53

I think this crazy complicated shit is too crazy and complicated lol I get the lore aspect but damn idk any game that can stuff like that perfectly.
Just work and myrland as a whole first. Continents/Moons/Lunar Pull/ Ocean Flow can allll wait till later.

rs3080 · 17th January 2012, 09:21

The map looks rather good, I hope they add an in-game skill Cartography that will allow players to craft these maps out of different materials like plain paper, cloth and leather versions that require low to medium Cartography skill and wall-mountable wooden and marble ones chiselled by highly-skilled artisan cartographers. The paper, cloth and leather maps, though requiring relatively low Cartography skill to create, have correspondingly low durability and degrade each time they are used by the player. So, the paper map would probably degrade after being used several dozen times, while the leather map would have several hundred uses in durability, and so on. The wooden and marble maps would have very high durability and last several thousand times of use before wearing down.

By the way, are they planning to do away with the current in-game compass and replace it with player-craft-able ones? It seems I've heard from somewhere long ago that the current compass is just a temporary placeholder until they implement the skill that will allow players to craft compasses as an in-game item rather than having them as part of the default UI as it is now.

Artorius · 17th January 2012, 19:06

If only there was lore in-game... Never saw any books... Well besides skill books.

deathshroud · 17th January 2012, 19:17

well soon we can write our own lore, hopefully the best books wirtten by the community will be available at the library at some point.

maveriq · 19th January 2012, 03:06

reminds me of azeroth... kalimdor west, azeroth east and whatever ice continent they have in WoW by north, am I wrong?

Paratus · 19th January 2012, 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by maveriq

reminds me of azeroth... kalimdor west, azeroth east and whatever ice continent they have in WoW by north, am I wrong?

Azeroth, and not Earth? A true gamer.

HrdkrH4x0r · 19th January 2012, 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paratus

Azeroth, and not Earth? A true gamer.

Well all of Europe IS missing, except for Russia/Herabalter of course. Don't think RUS will take too kindly to being compared to risars ;D

14th January 2012, 16:02	#41 (permalink)
Mats Persson Developer Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,296 Rep Power: 15	Oh. Uhm. Ok, I've no idea how that map ended up here, but that's one of the very first maps I did for MO many years ago, according to Henriks initial layout. Believe it or not, some of the features are actually still accurate Some of you may know how much I hate to publish lore outside of the actual game, especially if that lore doesn't have an "author" and is taken out of context (I'm not speaking of commonly known lore though such as generic cultural/racial backgrounds etc. Those should have been up there ages ago.). But it's possible I find this even worse; behind-the-scenes material from past work-in-production, that is no longer correct. Especially if there's no updated, official version of the material in question. I mean, if there was such a thing as a published official map of Nave (maybe of Tindremic origin), then this map could perhaps be interesting from a real-world production perspective i.e. "how we developed Mortal Online". But as it is now, it is only confusing and may even spoil certain aspects of the lore. To be perfectly clear: no in-game character has ever drawn a map like this one. Therefore it isn't even correct from an in-game historical perspective, i.e. "this is how a certain civilization used to think Nave looked like at one point in time". The "author" issue is especially apparent in the naming convention. When naming stuff in MO for publishing, I usually consider using one or more out of four “naming layers”: The original (or transliterated) name that are used by the people “possessing”, living close to or harboring the thing in question. For instance Amaruk Nuur, which is a transliterated Khurite name meaning “Wolf Lake”. Sometimes this name is the only one in circulation, meaning most other cultures have accepted the name and few varieties or translations exist. The local name coming from the “author” of the material. Thus, a Tindremene drawing a map of Myrland could choose to use either or both the Tindremic name Laak Meditullus (Lake Middle), or, if it's commonly used, the “original” Amaruk Nuur. The author translates the name into his or her language, which is common if there is no local name for the thing in question. Usually this is done by first writing the original name, and then the translated name. This would mean Amaruk Nuur got the translation Laak Lupus (Lake Wolf). The name is translated directly into English, no matter the in-game varieties. Item 4 is the most complicated, lore-wise. The game simply wouldn't be playable if the majority of NPC's were to speak in their native tongue (not to mention the insane amount of work it would take to develop 15+ languages well enough for NPC's to be able to speak them on a regular basis). So the player needs to get “translated” messages and names, and those come in English. However, translating everything to English wouldn't be a good option either as I want the in-game names and languages to be important, and they contribute a great deal to the immersion. But where do we draw the line? The rules are not set in stone, and I wouldn't want them to be because I like to be flexible. But this also means an NPC could be saying things like “I've heard there's a lot of Gold and Cuprum near the Great Cave in Gabaria”. Which of course really doesn't make any sense from a language perspective. My best suggestion for a solution to this is imagining characters and players in-game to have an “international auxiliary language” or common tongue. However this language is considered rather dirty and lowbrow, similar to Vulgar Latin. Most people speak this relatively new language (of which all the words are automatically translated to English for us players) good enough to communicate, but mix it with native and/or “finer” words to sound more educated, authoritative etc. Oh.. sorry, I got really side-tracked there. Map names! Anyway. The names on the map are not canonized in any way (according to the above) as the map has no author, and several of them are placeholders. Not to mention huge parts of the geography have moved around and transformed quite a bit. Main changes are of course: Spoiler for Separation: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/separation.jpg And among other major things, the name Lykia doesn't exist anymore. Or rather, the problem is that the name Lykia does exist, in the real world. Which could make for a great tie-in/connection, if it wasn't for irl Lykia having nothing to do with the in-game continent whatsoever. Furthermore, the Alvarin language wasn't really developed at that point. So a lot of renaming have been going on in that region, as a few of you have noticed. If possible, I will return with a few scraps on the sea-fall and other things later. And yes, as some of you have pointed out, yes, the in-game sky is still a placeholder. __________________ GK isn't some nice calm peaceful place to just sit around and extract stuff all day. We don't load characters up with carcass and rocks to the brim to where you have to push them around to the tables to work. - Anticules Mortal Online is a placeholder for Mortal Online. -SV - Airfell Is it the sparkling, canned dialog supplied by the NPC when you click on the little talk icon that makes it so interesting? -Archaaz Last edited by Mats Persson : 14th January 2012 at 16:14.

14th January 2012, 16:45	#42 (permalink)
Vulpeculae Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sweden Age: 20 Posts: 1,359 Rep Power: 3	Missed these kind of posts from you Mats! __________________ Do things with passion or not at all.

14th January 2012, 17:13	#43 (permalink)
Tizio Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North Italy Age: 22 Posts: 2,853 Rep Power: 4	I missed you Mats _ __________________ MortalItalia.com Italian Fansite! MortalPolitics.com

14th January 2012, 17:57	#45 (permalink)
Kuroi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Italy, Naples Age: 24 Posts: 2,913 Rep Power: 5	love you mats! __________________ 22/july/09 first log in cool memories <3

14th January 2012, 18:47	#49 (permalink)
deathshroud Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: UK Age: 28 Posts: 6,646 Rep Power: 6	I think you should link up branth (nordveld) with the left side of herabalter sealing in the inner sea and fixing the obvious issues with the different ocean levels. I made a quick map as an example. regarding the issue with a seperation in oceans, i would then create a series of shelves at tactons fault that eventually rach the lower ocean, with a harbour city atop tactons fault used for docking and transfering goods from a ship at the inner sea to one at the outer sea using cranes and pullys similar to gk mines regarding lykia or whatever it will be called, i would make the northen side to steep to access the continent and instead have a long rope bridge from the stairs of echidna to the north west corner of lykia. This would turn the myrland jungle into an expressway for people headed to and from lykia. Players would then either use this passage or travel by boat from toxai to larien. __________________ there's two types of MMO, innovators and imitators. Last edited by deathshroud : 16th January 2012 at 19:18.

14th January 2012, 20:15	#50 (permalink)
Wabbajack Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 270 Rep Power: 0	Shiit you made that map? Pro. I like it

14th January 2012, 20:19	#51 (permalink)
deathshroud Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: UK Age: 28 Posts: 6,646 Rep Power: 6	well i just edited mats map __________________ there's two types of MMO, innovators and imitators.

14th January 2012, 20:21	#52 (permalink)
Wabbajack Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 270 Rep Power: 0	yes well thats what I mean

14th January 2012, 21:36	#54 (permalink)
psychobilly Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 825 Rep Power: 4	Cool stuff Mats. Now please explain how sea level works irl and how it works in game. __________________

15th January 2012, 01:50	#55 (permalink)
Odazland Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salzburg, Austria Posts: 213 Rep Power: 0	Mats <3

15th January 2012, 08:24	#56 (permalink)
Shinzon Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 5,208 Rep Power: 4	Since you agree that a lot of the cultural lore on the races should have been released "Ages Ago", can you please at least comment on some of the speculation going on in this thread. Even though you don't like to "reveal" anything, I think that we are long overdue for some proper lore injections. The last official updates toward any sort of MO literature where a very long time ago. Never mind that your post effectively discredits the map as any sort of hard hinge for any type of lore, making it irrelevant in the long term. The only use that map gets now, is to try and draw out conjecture out of it based on the current development process. __________________

15th January 2012, 13:06	#57 (permalink)
Pompeii Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 82 Rep Power: 0	I agree with Shinzon on the lore injection, it needs to get up on the website as a cookie while people wait for the Awakening.

15th January 2012, 13:34	#58 (permalink)
Retepet Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Somewhere below standards Posts: 807 Rep Power: 2	....wait.... this game has lore ? :P just kidding ... but really, there's simply not enough lore in-game ... I don't really care for textwalls on the website tbh, lore in-game makes atmosphere, not somewhere in a forum __________________ www.morturio-gilde.de Red'Doh!!

15th January 2012, 17:48	#59 (permalink)
Wabbajack Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 270 Rep Power: 0	Mats srsly... give the npcs real names. Storage?Uility vendor? Makes no sense from a rp prespective.

17th January 2012, 07:53	#64 (permalink)
JangoxDarkblade Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Fairbanks, AK Age: 19 Posts: 61 Rep Power: 2	I think this crazy complicated shit is too crazy and complicated lol I get the lore aspect but damn idk any game that can stuff like that perfectly. Just work and myrland as a whole first. Continents/Moons/Lunar Pull/ Ocean Flow can allll wait till later. __________________

17th January 2012, 09:21	#65 (permalink)
rs3080 Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Australia Age: 31 Posts: 302 Rep Power: 0	The map looks rather good, I hope they add an in-game skill Cartography that will allow players to craft these maps out of different materials like plain paper, cloth and leather versions that require low to medium Cartography skill and wall-mountable wooden and marble ones chiselled by highly-skilled artisan cartographers. The paper, cloth and leather maps, though requiring relatively low Cartography skill to create, have correspondingly low durability and degrade each time they are used by the player. So, the paper map would probably degrade after being used several dozen times, while the leather map would have several hundred uses in durability, and so on. The wooden and marble maps would have very high durability and last several thousand times of use before wearing down. By the way, are they planning to do away with the current in-game compass and replace it with player-craft-able ones? It seems I've heard from somewhere long ago that the current compass is just a temporary placeholder until they implement the skill that will allow players to craft compasses as an in-game item rather than having them as part of the default UI as it is now. Last edited by rs3080 : 17th January 2012 at 09:45.

17th January 2012, 19:17	#67 (permalink)
deathshroud Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: UK Age: 28 Posts: 6,646 Rep Power: 6	well soon we can write our own lore, hopefully the best books wirtten by the community will be available at the library at some point. __________________ there's two types of MMO, innovators and imitators.

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