Great blade issue = polesword issue poll.

[Balidore]

Originally Posted by HrdkrH4x0r

I'm sorry, I have a Mac; what does numlock do in fights?

Auto-run

[Hertix]

Originally Posted by Strates

Yes, I do think a character with 70 strength should be able to use a greatblade. Do you want to make melee exclusive to min-maxed cookiecutter race/stat builds?

It is a Great Blade. You are assuming melee only means great blade usage, which is where the true exclusiveness lays. Hybrids or low strength melee builds should be using low strength weapons such as 1 hand blades or daggers. Normal strength builds 80-110 should be better suited for medium strength weapons such as swords or spears, and high strength builds 100-120 should be able to take advantage of the heaviest weapons such as great axes and maces and triple spears. The thing is great blades, i mean giant swords used by strong warriors, are still very useful for puny 70 str characters. Its idiotic.

And honestly I think they give too many stat points in the first place, no way should I be able to max 3 of my attributes on any character. Their is no choice being made in regards to stats. Do I want to be able to wield certain types of weapons, do I want more stam and speed, or do I want more health and speed: I should have to make a choice. As it is now I can max my speed, health, and str for weapons requirement and still have 3 points left for size. Its lame.

Consider someone who thinks speed is king and wants to max dex and con. With less stat points they are unable to max strength and thus unable to use the heavier, more damaging weapons. Now I have to choose which stats I want to trade off to get the strength needed to wield my axe or greatblade.

[Strates]

No, I am assuming that melee means all kinds of melee weapons where swords are at the lower weight range. What about 40 to 60 strength builds? 80 to 110 strength is not medium, 100 to 110 is quite high actually and already cannot be reached by many races.

Even in real life greatblades are light weapons, ranging from 1.5 to about 3 kilos for the standard ones. The really long ones (with around 200cm length) were rarely ever used in combat and are highly impractical for people of around 190 to 200cm height and even those weight somewhere around 5 kilos. They are longer than the MO greatblades, which I would predict to be about 180cm length with a rather accurate weight of 2 to 3 kilos.

They make perfect sense by being both realistic and balanced well enough towards strength vs stamina vs damage vs hp. The most balanced weapon by far in game at the moment. Nearly all other weapons make it near impossible to kill someone who isn't a complete idiot in combat and doesn't want to die.

[Hertix]

Ok you convinced me, Great Blades are medium weight-class weapons. And now I can see how reducing the number attributes would kill hybrid builds. How do you propose that the weapon system should be altered to encourage other Weapon types?

I don't believe Great Blade itself is the issue here, but lack of balance and features of other weapon types.

Daggers will be much harder to hit with, so why not have the ability to poison them (Recycled Idea I know, but they will be useless until then) Damage needs to be buffed as well.

Short swords need to be buffed: They need to cost less material, Hit a little less than great blade, cost less stamina, swing faster, and much smaller handle hitbox.

Long Spears are ok, the stam drain needs to be nerfed a bit.

Heavy Spears and Triple Spears need to be reduced in weight and increased in damage, they are simply useless

Axes need some help. They are essentially the harder hitting, slower and more stam draining version of swords, except people lean towards the better hitbox of great blade and cheaper cost of crafting them. They need to be buffed in some areas, maybe reducing the handle chance a bit and slightly increasing damage.

Great Axes and Maces: I can understand these not being effective in combat for most chars, but maybe make uber strength fighters such as 119-121 strength be able to use them effectively in ground combat.

Poleaxes: Poleswords and Poleaxes are good for mounted combat with the extended reach.

Now how about that obnoxious spw/spw thing? The durability of the handles on weapons should be multiplicative with their head. So if you use cheap woods for say a polesword handle it will break very easily, but since you now want to use maybe some blackwood on the handle, and considering pole handles are much larger than crossguards I would assume the weight of poleswords would now greatly overshadow that of greatblades, bringing them more in line with them in terms of stamina drain and usability. This would be good for all weapons except spears, which I can only think that the weight or material costs of the heads would need to be significantly reduced, at least to where long spears are on par with greatblades in terms of weight.

What do you think?

[Strates]

There are several threads about weapon balance and I even with full cooperation between devs and seasoned pvp players it will take quite some trial and error (+time, which we don't really have atm with AI and UI stuff being worked on) to get it right.

I agree that the shorter blade range would be a decent start since those are easier to balance towards the greatblade. Lower cost and weight are a decent start towards that.

Nevertheless what really needs to change to make those and a lot of other weapons viable is the handle problem. As outlined in another thread, there is a massive advantage of greatblades over all other weapons coming from their active hitbox, together with the very small hitbox on the crossguard. It is less prominent on the poleswords, but still noticeable. An idea "might" be to put "similar" weapons into hitbox "classes". Similar in the sense of being used in roughly the same way, not actually being similar. That would be the greatblade, axe and maceheads possibly. Call them "large swing heads" and give them the same active hitbox which also shortens the handle hitbox when necessary (to level the 2h short handle somewhat towards the rivet and crossguard handles). That makes sense in some way considering that you would grip the handle closer to the weapon head, no matter the handle length, and some weapons cover parts of the handle with their blade (axes for example).
Similar to that you can put dagger into the same group as short swing heads (or spears in case of stabs?). Not sure about the specifics, but that seems to be a decent approach. It might not be entirely realistic, but we need balance. We've waited for it for several years now, after all.

[Playzone]

Originally Posted by Aezreal

I don't really believe every weapon should be pvp viable.

Really? Did you think that sentence thru before you typed it lol?

[Fatcamp]

Originally Posted by Playzone

Really? Did you think thru that sentence before you typed it lol?

Actually i agree with aezreal. Its kinda like with the great double axe and sledgehammer. For them to be viable do you know how hard they need to hit? Or how light and fast with low stam drain it need to be? I mean if you dont want all weapons to be exacly the same they need to have different stats like axes do more damage then swords but h ave higher handle hit chance etc. WIth great double axe you would need todo like 180 with a steel one to make it balanced with greatblade etc. With that damage you will 2 shot someone. That will really ruin the game. So heavy weapons like sledgehammer and great double axe should be weapons against structures not in pvp. IT would make it to fucking insane. Make instead weapons like brier axe. Kallard great axe. double axe balanced and with maces you do flanged maces and star maces balanced not sledgehammers.

[Playzone]

Originally Posted by Fatcamp

Actually i agree with aezreal. Its kinda like with the great double axe and sledgehammer. For them to be viable do you know how hard they need to hit? Or how light and fast with low stam drain it need to be? I mean if you dont want all weapons to be exacly the same they need to have different stats like axes do more damage then swords but h ave higher handle hit chance etc. WIth great double axe you would need todo like 180 with a steel one to make it balanced with greatblade etc. With that damage you will 2 shot someone. That will really ruin the game. So heavy weapons like sledgehammer and great double axe should be weapons against structures not in pvp. IT would make it to fucking insane. Make instead weapons like brier axe. Kallard great axe. double axe balanced and with maces you do flanged maces and star maces balanced not sledgehammers.

Nice long post, but I think you missed my point there... Weapon!

Now if you would say tool of war or something else I wouldnt have pointed it out, I know he ment something else, but saying some WEAPONS shouldnt be viable in PvP is pretty funny to me

[serith78]

I agree with using the 2H greatblade as a benchmark for balancing other weapons. The issue with greatblades occurs when putting the greatblade head on either a long handle (polesword) or a 1h hilt - in both cases IMO the stamina drain should be significantly higher then it is now, possibly with slower swing speed.

[Stubben2]

Originally Posted by Fatcamp

Actually i agree with aezreal. Its kinda like with the great double axe and sledgehammer. For them to be viable do you know how hard they need to hit? Or how light and fast with low stam drain it need to be? I mean if you dont want all weapons to be exacly the same they need to have different stats like axes do more damage then swords but h ave higher handle hit chance etc. WIth great double axe you would need todo like 180 with a steel one to make it balanced with greatblade etc. With that damage you will 2 shot someone. That will really ruin the game. So heavy weapons like sledgehammer and great double axe should be weapons against structures not in pvp. IT would make it to fucking insane. Make instead weapons like brier axe. Kallard great axe. double axe balanced and with maces you do flanged maces and star maces balanced not sledgehammers.

I don't see a whole lot of people using the great double axe

[Fatcamp]

Originally Posted by Stubben2

I don't see a whole lot of people using the great double axe

beacuse its not pvp balanced? As i said if they gonna balance it. It will either instagibb people or it will be handled like an lighter axe..


I know great double axe hits hard. but its still not viable beacsue off how much material it takes and how slow it is etc. Btw stop use tinypic its the worst site ever.

[Stubben2]

how so?

and btw the only thing wrong with axes imo is the amount of handle hits they make.
if you want a heavy ass axe then it'll be a mounted combat weapon not a ground combat weapon.
I'd only go as far as a steel double axe as a ground weapon and then you'd have to be very careful with stam management, anything heavier you'd have to be on a mount to use effectively.

[Shinzon]

Originally Posted by Playzone

Really? Did you think that sentence thru before you typed it lol?

So a mace-head on a two handed handle should be viable? There are lots of unusable combinations that are possible, not all of them should be viable; you must always have an opportunity to create something stupid, and "Fail" at crafting. However as it is right now, the diversity of viable weapons can be increased; following the logic that if it has seen some use in the real world, it's probably worth to consider how it can be applied to MO.

I really think they key to balancing all the weapons out would be to exaggerate the damage type of each weapon, and the protective qualities of each armor in regards to a single damage type. This is already the case in MO; but the mitigation is slight, around 15% at best, I would say double that number up to 30%. So if you are hitting someone with a damage type that their armor doesn't protect, most of it will bleed through to their HP pool.

Also something to consider would be poisons and enchantments, that we know will eventually make their way into the game, and they certainly will throw a wrench into any current balancing attempts. I could imagine that some enchantments could make a "Blunt" typed weapon deal equal slashing damage, or a poison which takes an entire bottle to coat a great blade, compared to a single drop on a dagger.

Right now it's hard to say that something does "30 Damage on Armor", I always want to ask "On what kind of armor?", since even today different materials and armor types will have a significant impact on damage reduction. Durability also plays a large role with weapons, and maybe even adding techniques that increase the durability damage to weapons is something to consider as well.

Suffice to say, we all want a game of where it's not just about the DPS, and I would argue that's even the case today, most arguments that are made need to consider how diverse the crafting system is, and anyone who says that there is just a single armor or weapon type combination is missing the greater picture; as even the great blades themselves have a lot of variation in them today.

[Fatcamp]

Originally Posted by Stubben2

how so?

and btw the only thing wrong with axes imo is the amount of handle hits they make.
if you want a heavy ass axe then it'll be a mounted combat weapon not a ground combat weapon.
I'd only go as far as a steel double axe as a ground weapon and then you'd have to be very careful with stam management, anything heavier you'd have to be on a mount to use effectively.

So you want all weapons to have the same handle hit ratio damage, everything? If this is what you want, Then we SV can just make 1 weapon and change the model off it. There is alot off different ways they can do it. Make the axes have faster swing time lower stam drain. Lower material cost. Later with the higher handle hit. Its something people need to learn. So maybe axes or maces can be the pro weapon off choice then they learn how to not handle hit etc while noobs who handle hit crazy can use the great blade etc.

[Shadowmist]

I think what's really important here is to first ask yourself this:

How do we diversify the feel and play style for each weapon and weapon type.

How can we make combat with for instance a GB and a great axe feel different to play.
All numbers aside, what needs to be unique is the way you handle it. What I really liked in Guild Wars was that the skills there almost always had a drawback that you had to learn how to handle. I'm not saying we should compare GW to MO, I'm saying it would help diversify the weapons if they all had weaknesses of some sort. Of course some weapons should be kind of balanced, and that's exactly my point. Some players would like to play the balanced weapons and some would like the cookie-cutter style.


Without taking specific weapons into account, here's what I would like to see:


1h
Wielding ONLY a 1h weapon should be a viable technique, though my idea is not a short term solution (I think).

It's diversified by the use of special abilities that use 2 hands for more damage.
The thing about 1h weapons is that you can use them either with one or two hands.


Dual wield
For this to really be viable, you should really capture the essence of dual wielding, which is the speed at which you can counter an attack.
I think counter speed should be a variable stat that's different depending on the weapon style, and dual wielding should have the very fastest countering speed.

2H swords
People seem to be satisfied with the way they work now, so I shouldn't fiddle around too much with them, however I do feel like some stuff needs to be changed.

A 2h weapon is a very agressive weapon but lacks defense. To create that playstyle I would increase the counter speed significantly. I would also slightly increase the stamina use to discourage spamming. A 2h weapon is a hard hitter, and really not what was used by the general army (not saying we should always use RL as reference).

2H Axes and maces

Similar to 2h swords, but I would really like to see these weapons as slow swing, medium stamina drain and high damage. The reason I say medium stamina is because let's be honest, a weapon that uses almost all your stamina is not fun to play. 2h heavy weapons should be the most draining, but still not 90% stamina / swing.

Sword + Shield
Kind of similar to dual wield, except you don't have as fast counter speed (though it's still is among the faster).

This one's kind of self explanatory, better protection but you are unable to use the 2h skills that you can use if you use only a 1h weapon.

Spear

All about range. Horse killer. A long spear is really not a duelist weapon and so therefore it's pretty slow but with high poke damage (armor piercing). Short spears however are excellent duelist weapons with medium damage (armor piercing)

The problem with this weapon is that it's very limited to just stabbing, which makes it very easy to block. Even though this IS a real problem with spears I would remedy it like this:

Succesfully perfectblocking a spear attack should give the defender a knockback effect. Not knockdown, just a slight push. This really help selling spears as a long range, "keep your distance" weapon.


Daggers

Another stat (besides counter speed) that I would like to see be different depending on the weapon is the charge time. A dagger should have the shortest charge time for full damage. This, along with some decent armor piercing and weakspots should make it a difficult, but still viable weapon.

[Stubben2]

Originally Posted by Fatcamp

So you want all weapons to have the same handle hit ratio damage, everything? If this is what you want, Then we SV can just make 1 weapon and change the model off it. There is alot off different ways they can do it. Make the axes have faster swing time lower stam drain. Lower material cost. Later with the higher handle hit. Its something people need to learn. So maybe axes or maces can be the pro weapon off choice then they learn how to not handle hit etc while noobs who handle hit crazy can use the great blade etc.

how the heck did you manage to enterpit my post in me wanting every weapon to be identical to one another?

I said the only thing that needs to be fixed is the amount of handle hits they make, imo I think the handle hit range should be between what it is now and the crossguard handle. I'm fine with axes being heavier and slower than swords as long as they deal more damage.

[Balidore]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

So a mace-head on a two handed handle should be viable? There are lots of unusable combinations that are possible, not all of them should be viable; you must always have an opportunity to create something stupid, and "Fail" at crafting. .

Like a long rod with a heavy greatblade hanging off the end?

[Shinzon]

Originally Posted by Balidore

Like a long rod with a heavy greatblade hanging off the end?

I find a Pole-Sword's comedic value very much less so than that of a "Heavy Exercise Ball". Look here, is that a Scimitar on a stick?

Point is, at least I can imagine how a Pole-Greatblade can be actually used. Though they would probably have been impractical because the blade would snap off the pole because it was too heavy.

[HrdkrH4x0r]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

I find a Pole-Sword's comedic value very much less so than that of a "Heavy Exercise Ball". Look here, is that a Scimitar on a stick?

Point is, at least I can imagine how a Pole-Greatblade can be actually used. Though they would probably have been impractical because the blade would snap off the pole because it was too heavy.

That scimitar is a shortblade.

[Shadowmist]

Originally Posted by HrdkrH4x0r

That scimitar is a shortblade.

It's called a Kwon dao and was considered a general's weapon due to it's heavy nature. It wasn't an effective 1 on 1 weapon, but once you got it swinging people would either have to parry with their faces or retreat.

Thing is, combat in those ages was so thought through that weapons were made not as protection for it's user. Instead they were created to let the user kill as many as possible before they fall, which was usually pretty fast. (sort of like ancient suicide bombers)

[bbihah]

Kwandao this Kwandao that. Its still essentially a scimitar on a stick xD

greatblade on a stick (Svärdstav) was actually used and was more effective than you would think.

[bbihah]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

I find a Pole-Sword's comedic value very much less so than that of a "Heavy Exercise Ball". Look here, is that a Scimitar on a stick?

Point is, at least I can imagine how a Pole-Greatblade can be actually used. Though they would probably have been impractical because the blade would snap off the pole because it was too heavy.

You should read our forums more often Shinzon i have a whole thread dedicated to them... and its old

[Balidore]

Originally Posted by bbihah

Kwandao this Kwandao that. Its still essentially a scimitar on a stick xD

greatblade on a stick (Svärdstav) was actually used and was more effective than you would think.

There is absolutely nothing in history, even remotely close to having a 2h length, 2h weight blade, like the greatblade on the end of a pole.

Svärdstav (or swordstaff), is a small sword on the end of a stick. Nothing in comparison to the ridiculousness of the 2h greatblade on a stick in Mortal Online.

edit: Factual history proves you have no argument here, stop trying, I seriously didn't even expect to have to come back to the thread over that one, lol.

[Chrihas]

Originally Posted by Balidore

There is absolutely nothing in history, even remotely close to having a 2h length, 2h weight blade, like the greatblade on the end of a pole.

Svärdstav (or swordstaff), is a small sword on the end of a stick. Nothing in comparison to the ridiculousness of the 2h greatblade on a stick in Mortal Online.

edit: Factual history proves you have no argument here, stop trying, I seriously didn't even expect to have to come back to the thread over that one, lol.

Pretty much, you put a GB on a stick and the stick will bend and break, these were the polearms. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...Q9QEwAQ&dur=60

[bbihah]

Lol you shouldnt say it doesnt exist. because it does(or well used to, dont know about now derp). Remember a 2h greatblade doesn't weigh THAT much. If you check my link a Swordstaff replica weigh 2.8kg

Granted the blade isn't as big as a 2h greatblade its more the size of a bastard sword and if you actually played this one game called "Mortal Online" and used the weapon yourself ingame you can see that the blade is much shorter than it should be from your own prespective but for others its very very long. but one little detail still remains, if you put a short sword on a pole instead you wouldnt be doing near enough damage to a real 2 hander.

If factual history is based from a book you found lying around in your house and the weapon is not in there then i call your factual history BOGUS.


Here is a link of a guy doing a reconstruction of a Swordstaff aswell as with alittle historical background: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewto...light=dolstein

And here is a Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swordstaff


Of course you wouldnt have heard of it because its a Swedish weapon, But that doesnt mean it never existed and THAT is a fact.

[Pakee]

Do you compare that lil swordstaff to our GB pole lol?
It almost look like spear.

[bbihah]

Originally Posted by Pakee

Do you compare that lil swordstaff to our GB pole lol?
It almost look like spear.

Have you ever held one ingame? thats the exact same size.
The model is displayed different on the outside and the range of the weapon is as if it was as short as you see it on your character. All it needs is a shorter model to fit the reach and POV model. Also its not small. it looks small due to the long pole. Its the length of a bastard sword. if not more.

Dont see it like a sword on a stick, See it as a whole different weapon. A polearm.

[Stubben2]

doesn't matter if it's real or not. it needs to be nerfed, you can add that to the "facts".

[CDXX]

Originally Posted by Fatcamp

Well CDXX the great double axe and sledgehammer can be good to destroy structures or manganons. What about brier axe. Kallard great axe. Double axe? Or like flanged mace and star mace. This weapons need to be pvp viable. They need to increase the damage ALOT! on them and reduce the stamina drain on them to. But ofc dont take to huge steps some every patch.

WHY YOU SAY CDXX I NO SAY NOTHING

[KingKrom]

Think balance comes from lack of features fix odd swings / arcs with certain axes and add more effects to weapons based upon weight etc. such as crush through based upon weight of the whatever is being used to attack and block along with all other property such as strength of players and type of weapon.

To put it short- Allow heavy weapons to have slight damage penetration through blocks including perfect blocks.

[bbihah]

Current weapon balance is like jedi academy where it comes down to small things like shallow hit damage and shitty animation/arcs. And it makes a big difference....

If anything the animations need to match the arcs better.
Better yet add new animations for the swings based on actual swings and not useless side swiping axe moves/Sword swings based on kids fighting with sticks/mace swings where you somehow swing with the handle first... that should remove our handle hit bullcrap. After that its just about adding some new mechanics to blocking (once prediction system is up for it)

Like for example heavier weapon swinging at a lighter weapon should do damage even when you perfect block and blocking and pushing onto a weapon should be a riposte effect having the effect of the perfect block we have today towards heavier weapons.(missing will result in you taking a full hit instead of blocking or perfect blocking while hitting will result in a equal weapon weight perfect block, 1-6 damage like usual) Shields should block damage depending on their materials and work pretty much similar to what they do now. Maybe add shield bashing?(interrupt a swing charge/spellcasting/bow pull?)

Suggestions?

[Henrik Nystrom]

Originally Posted by bbihah

If anything the animations need to match the arcs better.
Better yet add new animations for the swings based on actual swings and not useless side swiping axe moves/Sword swings based on kids fighting with sticks/mace swings where you somehow swing with the handle first... that should remove our handle hit bullcrap. After that its just about adding some new mechanics to blocking (once prediction system is up for it)

I doesnt work like that.
We have no arc system to match animation, we have no traces getting spawned to simulate a hit depending on animation.
We have a real time trace system on the actual mesh, which means what you see is what you get. Now there are situations when hits seem to register wrong, due to something we recently looked deeper into, which is how UE3 renders graphics and data. Simular to the high FPS issues when people tent to get stuck a lot more than having more "normal" fps rates. The entire weapon, the head and the handle on its own traces in real time when you swing, in the entire swing, what hits first gives the result. This means we could let it trace infinit and you would be able to hit a pixel in real time and get the correct result on that small pixel, eaither with your handel or your sword, it is that accurate.

Edit* We do have some long weapons where you need to count for the handle sticking out behind next to your body, hich means doing a left to right swing here is not easy and vice versa, which means the swing may seem very odd, correct way would probably to swift hands move over the weapon and perform a full normal swing, but that doesnt really fit in our dynamic system right now and would mean a special case rule which never is something we want to add in this, or simply force it through the body like most other games does it today.

WHat is correct here is that we can improve a lot by tweaking and changing our pure animation that controls the outcome of the hit/damage. Since the actual weapon controls the exact outcome as in, if the handle hit its target first then its a handle hit, if the head hits the target first its a head hit. It cant get more realistic in forms of "traces/arcs" than this, since its all about the physical real hit that detemines the outcome. Things are hard to see in a 3d game in first person that makes it look a bit different in some cases, and like I said the FPS issue plais its part sometime. Which we have tracked down and restricted in the coming patch.

We have a few weapon types that uses different animation, and like you said, some animations may seem to swing with its handle first, which indeed is odd, which we can change and improve.

There is no specific cases/rules with our weapons thats also the beuty of the system and makes the weapons as justified as possible in terms of balancing when starting from scratch in terms of looking on a weapon to weapon basis before starting into details. This means, there is no weapon X with handle A that gives more handle hits than weapon Y with handle A for instance, it uses the exact same system how to calculate the outcome of a hit and its result. However that weapon combination could have had a different animation for that swing, and that could change the outcome as well. So we cannot "lower" the handle hits on weapon X to further balance it, it all depends on how the weapon is swinged and how it hit. This means if there is a huge issue on a specific weapon people want us to "nerf" handle hit, that means its most likely the animation that makes it swing so the handle seem to be forward the target instead of the head piece.

I wanted to clear this once and for all, so we can talk on the same page and get furter in the balancing of our weapons, because thats something I agree on, we can further improve this for sure, and like someone else said, there are more things to count for soon as well, such as special moves, poison new weapon groups etc.

Each testing phase we have I try to gather as much as weapon/armor balancing as possible and been doing so for awhile, taking small steps in the right direction each time I think. I find these threads interesting to read as well.

Thanks for my input, and your feedback on this.

[bbihah]

Then switch the animations out for the swings then because most are impractical and thats what mostly causes the problem with handle hits on maces and axes. Much like how it works for Jedi academy with alot of flashy impractical swings that make some weapons worse.

I mean really would you swing your axe sideways as a main attack? I doubt it. if anything it should be diagonally, For both sides. as currently the sideswipe is the only good one while the right swing is just stupid. You have to swing with your side towards your target to even have a good chance of getting an actual hit. When looking at it i think switching out the spear swing animation with the axe swing animation would be ALOT better. Both are diagonal where one is suited for a close opponent and one is for one further away.

Now you swing a sword and get a good hit with all parts of the blade. Some parts of the sword depending on the swing should count as a handle hit simple as that.

Maces 1h and 2h get handle hit in the most ridiculous situations like when the target gets just a tiny inch closer than your max range this is due to the weird swings. This should not be the case especially not on the short handles. The one handed maces should be swung more sideways as thats how you inflict the most damage on a target.
Remember this the golden rule off using maces: Mr gravity is your friend but just because hes your friend doesnt mean you use him completely. Diagonal swings with a hint to the sides for 1h mace swings are optimal for accuracy while the two handers should be more towards circular swings made diagonally like an axe.

Animations needs to be redone to swings that were actually used which not only looks good but they are practical. Either look through Gfhs.se guides for the different sword swings and stances or use other reliable sources unless you want to get some people to do motion capture.

Also if your going for collision through mesh then using actual swings that were used in real life is alot better than trying to reinvent the wheel.

Another cool thing would be to have a swing left and then the counter stance as the block animation for the blocking direction.


And thanks for explaining how the system works Henrik.

[Hydras]

Any ways to make dagger more effective?

[Henrik Nystrom]

Originally Posted by Hydras

Any ways to make dagger more effective?

Before they had much more weak spots, but that created those imba sticks with weak spots, made that a bit to OP so daggers in generals had to be nerfed, no easy way for us to balance this since players can chose to put those daggers on top of a stick and since its dynamic it will keep the daggers attributes. And like I said before we dont like to add certain rules for certain cases which also makes the overall balancing much harder.

But if thats the last solution we may have to look into that.
We also dont want to restrict the players crafting creativities by not allowing certain combinations.

When adding special moves, the daggers could get what they need to be usable in different situations. Poisoneded daggers is interesting..

[Fatcamp]

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

Before they had much more weak spots, but that created those imba sticks with weak spots, made that a bit to OP so daggers in generals had to be nerfed, no easy way for us to balance this since players can chose to put those daggers on top of a stick and since its dynamic it will keep the daggers attributes. And like I said before we dont like to add certain rules for certain cases which also makes the overall balancing much harder.

But if thats the last solution we may have to look into that.
We also dont want to restrict the players crafting creativities by not allowing certain combinations.

When adding special moves, the daggers could get what they need to be usable in different situations. Poisoneded daggers is interesting..

What about putting in a timer for weapons. Like the longer the weapon is the longer it takes before you can do a weakspot with it. Like daggers are shot its not long charge time then. But if you putt them on a long handle it start to get long time before you can get in a weakspot:P? kinda like 100cm is 2sec charge time for weakspot. But for a weapon that is 20-30 cm its 0.4-0.6 sec charge time for a chance for weakspot.

[Hydras]

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

Before they had much more weak spots, but that created those imba sticks with weak spots, made that a bit to OP so daggers in generals had to be nerfed, no easy way for us to balance this since players can chose to put those daggers on top of a stick and since its dynamic it will keep the daggers attributes. And like I said before we dont like to add certain rules for certain cases which also makes the overall balancing much harder.

But if thats the last solution we may have to look into that.
We also dont want to restrict the players crafting creativities by not allowing certain combinations.

When adding special moves, the daggers could get what they need to be usable in different situations. Poisoneded daggers is interesting..

What about specializing in daggers and dual wield? I think it's a shame that some weapons are not effective. Dual wielding quick daggers (and making duel wield effective) makes for a whole other playstyle.

[KhaoticKaos]

Hey Henrik, since it appears you are monitoring this thread, and people are talking about animations, how about you FIX THE FEMALE CHARACTER SWING ANIMATIONS. they were broken months ago when you tried to fix the way sleeping looked. Now all female characters look retarded when they do just about anything.

Wish you could have just fixxed itwhen youbroke it.. but here I am 3 months later asking to have it back working again...

[Henrik Nystrom]

Originally Posted by KhaoticKaos

Hey Henrik, since it appears you are monitoring this thread, and people are talking about animations, how about you FIX THE FEMALE CHARACTER SWING ANIMATIONS. they were broken months ago when you tried to fix the way sleeping looked. Now all female characters look retarded when they do just about anything.

Wish you could have just fixxed itwhen youbroke it.. but here I am 3 months later asking to have it back working again...

Yes Im sorry about that, I didnt even know it was still like that,
We talked about it today, and will have it fixed in the next patch.

Thanks

[Derik]

i reported that Bugged female char animation ages ago