Discussion in 'Services' started by ruben ibarruri, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. SGTAwesome

    SGTAwesome Member

    No investment is totally risk-free. Beforehand I choose whether to invest my gold for 1% a year and have a risk of losing it when I am back (if you don't agree check my first point here again) or to come back and withdraw money which will be safe in a town with much higher likelihood. I know that I will neither earn anything nor loose it. But again, if you have two stacks of gold it's much easier to earn more in short period of time.
    In my opinion 1% a year is not a rate at which I would be ready to invest my money.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Gedeon

    Gedeon Junior Member

    oh well, i dont think like that bcause I have no doubt the reliability, so i'm not afraid to lose gold. Thats why i tell ppl to try the service. Try just with 500g, 1k, 5k first, to see the transparency of the service. Maybe you can say is only 1% per month, but 1% doing nothing xD
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

    Yes. 1% rate not is the great offert xd but is for one reason. I try create a sustentable bussiness and be cautious about i offer becouse i am sure garanty 1% profit now. In future when my bussinesss growth i increase the interes rate but it dependd about demand of people. For moment i offer a small profit rate (but secure) give me time sir.
    I invite you negotiate with my a deposit and know my work system
  4. SGTAwesome

    SGTAwesome Member

    Ruben, thanks for clarifications again, but I was not establishing here anything - I was just answering questions. Also, I am neutral to the service's terms, therefore convinced that everything will go fine with it.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

    No problem man. All fine. I will show all my work and will try make best deposit service in myrland
  6. Bopkasen

    Bopkasen Well-Known Member

    I disagree. This is a serious load of money. I expect more percentage.


    Fair enough but the accountability is not enough. This is what I don't get with ICH's banking principal. How easy it can collapse, and the money disappears in the wind. Too many Ponzi schemes that do this crap and then go bankrupt.

    Let see, you offer a loan service to people; for an example...

    Any money handed would have been made a profit for the loan service for you or Ruben's loan service rate. Now, if the loan failed, the money given would have yielded -50% or more consider the condition of the risk factor in the loan.

    If people is going to give you the money, it is consider lending whether you like it or not. With the money given, it is a tool to profit upon with the 1% earning per term. So, I would expect more like above lending rate example.

    I suggest that people should keep their money and not invest it. The risk and amount of the principle (your money account) are greater than the earning.
    • Disagree x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

    Honestly i not know much you, but is wonderfull the amount of time in try convence people all ICH bussiness are not reliable or not good. I not understanf the reason.
    First all, this is a long term service. Guy takes low risk for deposit gold in my bank and i take higth risk when offer it, becouse i must be create a reliable bussiness and i cant have faileds.
    1% for month is low rate interes? Ok, is true.
    But..¿you have much experience in financial activity in MO?
    Financial activity is diferent to other economical activitys sir.
    I try offer a realistic offer, i not will offer nothing if i not sure 100% i make it posible.
    I am sure can create 1% rate interes profit for my clients.
    ¿More? Maybe but for the moment i organisate my deposit with prudent predictions.
    In some time posible ready for offer better conditions but now it is free market and this is my offer.
    If you considered my work bad is simply. Take same risk to me and create your own Deposite banking service. You are free for do it. For the moment good guys number have interes in my bussiness. You would must be try do something you know.
    Speak... easy. Make it possible...hard. I invite use my service.
  8. Azidano

    Azidano Senior Member

    You are talking about absolute 100% certainty, which is a rare thing to find in life, let alone a financial product. A Ponzi scheme is, in its inherent design, not sustainable. Unlike a Ponzi scheme this has a fixed, determined rate for a fixed period of time, and before the investment can begin, it requires Ruben's consent.

    I don't understand. Any money handed over would have yielded -50%? If somebody does not pay you back, you lose 100%.

    I do not believe anybody denied that this was a loan. Your suggestion that everybody should be entitled to the same interest rates does not conform with the Free Market. With loans, just like any market, there are 'sellers' and 'buyers', this may explain the price differential to you as Sellers usually sell their product above market price and Buyers buy their goods and below market price.

    You are entitled to your opinion - clearly not everybody, including customers of this product, do not share it with you. If people equate, say, the risk of lending money to Ruben to the risk of lending money to you, Bopkasen, they are also entitled to that opinion as well.

    The good news is that your prediction of this being a scam can easily be tested and be made apparent once the current customers reach their maturity dates.

    The bad news is that even if there are 100 satisfied customers, you will always hold this view. It is just in your nature :(
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Bopkasen

    Bopkasen Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but you can't prove it even if someone reached maturity date. It is still used in the method of ponzi scheme to prove financial credibility before a big bust. All ponzi schemes have used it. It is the point of building confident in people's greed to invest in hope for a percentage.

    Oh, look John got 1%. It isn't a scam! But,after 10 Peter's 1%, you have Paul's -100% as in nothing.

    I can't talk too much to Ruben because I know he is struggling to understand since he isn't good with English. However, the reality is two people can't make a solid informal or formal agreement if they can't understand each other.
    • Disagree x 2
  10. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

    I understand all you write.
    You continue with negative publicity. No problem, i know my work and ready for stable more deposit.
    The 1% proffit taxe not got using one deposit for pay one deposit with other deposit .
    The system is sustentable becouse i provide my bussiness with economical reserves.
    I have 18.000 g ready for cover profit taxes in this my capital for this business.
    I not use Ponzi scheme. I use sustentable system.
    Is simply. The time will show how are wrong. No problem, you can continue with negative publicity. About if i cant make trade becouse my english bad....i dont where you was in this years but i make about 1000 trades with much guys and never idiom problem.
    In my opinon you only try damage ICH reputation. Your actitude is destructive. But you no understand the reality. The people confidence in my or azidano becouse we build the confidence with hard work, not with words.
    It is the reason guys give me gold for deposit, no the 1% rate profit. But i am not sure if you can understand it.
    Y yo no se hablar bien ingles porque SOY ESPAÑOL, de lo que estoy muy orgulloso.
  11. Azidano

    Azidano Senior Member

    There is no 100% way to prove that anything isn't a Ponzi Scheme. There is no way to prove that by you trading with other people, assuming that you even do, isn't just a Ponzi Scheme either, or that every post you make in the forum contributes to the Ponzi scheme.

    But I am confused with the nature of your objection. Your argument seems to go like this:

    A. There is no way to prove with 100% certainty that this isn't a Ponzi Scheme
    B. Therefore I think you should provide a larger interest rate
    C. Therefore it must be a Ponzi Scheme???

    You are conflating two things together which, as a result, contradict each other's motive. Are you trying to put an argument forward for higher interest rates, or just trying to slander somebody on the forums?

    Before you go on your barrage of condescension please recognise that you are just as - if not even more - harder to understand than Ruben. This is usually the case with people who have formed their conclusion and then try to assemble their arguments.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Bopkasen

    Bopkasen Well-Known Member

    It is already proven to be a ponzi scheme. Every ponzi does this kind of tricks. Look it up on the internet! This isn't a real bank. This is a peer to peer transaction that involve with co-mingling people's money, mixing one person's money with money to be used for business transaction.

    Ruben needs to show how he is managing people's money. If he can't show that, well that the problem right there.

    So, for the sake of argument, if it isn't a ponzi scheme, why 1%? Why not just people call it out what what they willing to lend for X amounts of percentage before their money become mix in with other people's money. The bank have limited slot.

    Ruben need to explains how he is going to manage people money, shows how he tracking the transaction, etc. If it a self-esteem issue, that's isn't what this entire argument is about. Words aren't a formal agreement. Reputation and its success are a self-inflating credibility but if used wrongly can damage people how they transact their money. If any transaction was done for small amount of money, they are trying to make you feel good about your business without having a personal interest of wealth.

    Miscommunication is something to keep in mind if one were to do informal agreement or contract.

    "Y yo no se hablar bien ingles porque SOY ESPAÑOL, de lo que estoy muy orgulloso"

    And, I don't speak English well but very proud of my Spanish. - Ruben, Spanish to English translation.
    • Disagree x 1
  13. Mhu

    Mhu Guest

    Look back in 2001 when my country went into the chaos because banks toke out ppl savings in dollars from here making it unabailable to extract for years until the corrupt capitalists where thrown away to the see.
    Forgive me dude, i know you are truthworthy but if shit happends there i too much risk, when you could just bank it on a town. 1% does not cover any risk and does not sound like advantage over town npc.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

  15. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

    I will not answer your personal attacks. I am aware that you seem to have some kind of animosity against ICH. Even I remind you criticizing me when Saneone refused to pay their debts with me.I honestly very little matter your opinon. I do not remember anything except criticize ICH.

    However I agree that I should try to provide a fully-transparent service. (For my clients, not for you)
    So in the contract they sign with me, I promise to provide monthly reports on the activity of your deposit, increase use of capital etc etc
    If you need more information about running my deposit I invite you to see me, but you will not be the judge and executioner of my work, now or ever.
    I invite you to do something for himself in the MO apart from disqualifying the work of others and talk.
    Actually this just motivates me more to improve my deposit. Is that your only goal is to have visibility and torpedoing my job, but if you have a suggestion on how to improve me my deposit I invite you to send me a private pm. I think that would be better than to insult me ​​saying this is a Ponzi scheme.
    Absolutamnete definitely you do not know anything about the financial circuit MO.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Azidano

    Azidano Senior Member

    How is it already proven to be a ponzi scheme? Could you please show me where Ruben has conned anybody so far? Rather than philosophically arguing about what 'certainty' is, you are now being slanderous. It has just as much merit as me stalking your threads and posts and accusing you of being a forum troll, then having the audacity to claim that it is already proven.

    Ruben does not 'need' to do anything, although I do concede on a matter of principal that if anybody decides to show how they spend the injection of capital it does not decrease confidence but merely increases it. In fact, just beacuse I am too late in putting this post up, it appears Ruben's answer already concedes that he could make it more transparent.

    How does this make sense? Are you seriously suggesting that because the interest is low it is indicative of it being a Ponzi Scheme? If he offered 100% every week as interest, this is considered LESS of a Ponzi scheme???

    It is true that one cannot take onboard an infinite amount of gold and sustainably offer interest on it, I agree on that. So the problem is how does one control the amount of debt they take onboard?

    Again, all of this would help, but you suggesting it as a 'need' is just silly. yes it would help, but it goes back to the fundamental principle: The market will decide what is needed, not you. So strange that you talk about devaluing the use of words, when it is all you ever seem to offer...

    Alot of what you said is actually true and we agree. Where we disagree is that I reject your premise of: "Because conning people in an online game is possible... I will conclude that THIS is definitely a con." That is not how a rational discussion progresses.

    Miscommunication can lead to some nasty situations, granted. What is the difference between an 'informal agreement' and a 'formal agreement' and what makes you suggest that this is an informal agreement (I am guessing this is what you were driving at).

    I believe that the main ingredient that goes a long way to fixing that problem is the intention. If the intention is to con, it will become apparent how ambiguity is exploited. If the intention is to provide a service, then that will also become apparent in trying to define contractual arrangements.

    I do wonder at what your intention is... especially when your criticism is that a higher interest rate should be offered so it is less of a Ponzi Scheme.

    I think it is quite clear that my assumption is proven, more so than your belief that this is proven to be a Ponzi scheme... It is clear that you have made your assumption for whatever reasons yet to be understood and just flit around trying to find things that fit in with your theory.

    At the end of the day, I do not expect your opinion to be changed. But what I will say is that the Market decides whether the product is successful or not. And the Market is independent of any individual may say.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

    Ok Sir, Understand your concern. Let me explain my opinion ok?
    Really the only risk to my clients is the time to transfer me gold. why?B
    ecause every time I set a deposit, the rate of interest (1%) is already covered with my money 1%.The way I organize my business is by establishing an initial capital.
    That is, I use my personal money to cover the deposit and profit and from there try to monetize my investment.ç
    At the time of establishing your deposit you are already making money.
    In my opinion the risk factors are:
    - Starvalut close the MO and the game ends.
    - I die. (Azidano or Ichorus logearan my bills and finish the job)
    - A small mientars risk client money is transferred to me in the veredary or on the bench.
    - What my account is closed? That's impossible because I do nothing illegal in the game, but to be safe, I have 3 different accounts with 4 slots each. And in the case of emergency I can logear two computers in two different houses (different IP address)Also I offer a small percentage is true.
    But it is mainly because I must be cautious, do not want to give people more than what I can generate.However I will continue working to improve my service.I invite you to trust my work and establish a deposit.
  18. Bopkasen

    Bopkasen Well-Known Member

    Yes. He will be more transparent. You, on the other hand, got your arm cross and advocate less accountability. You are in no position to do that, neither is Ruben. It is the people's money that we are talking here. It have to be done, no if or but.

    The fact that money is being used other than just sitting in the bank means that the money deposit isn't meant for "holding".

    Anything possible with Ponzi scheme with a self-inflated financial credibility, credential, and any interest rate.

    Look at Bernie Madoff, people were laughing at the victim of his Ponzi scheme.

    Facts About Bernie Madoff:

    1. He was a former non-executive chairman of the Nasdaq stock market. Nasdaq is a US small business stock companies. This is where all the OTC securities representing small business goes.

    2. His interest was very low, 12%, which is standard mutual fund company rate.

    3. His work histories and work different securities.

    No doubt, all of it didn't stop him from pulling a big ponzi scheme.

    So, the answer is, how low percentage is being a ponzi scheme? Because it relatively can be without anybody jurisdiction other than the owner of the Mortal Online account, and Star Vault company. There is no independent accounting of who did what with the people's deposit.


    1. Poor writing, making lack of effort to be written as a contract.
    2. Forum and text messaging
    3. The missing accountability factor to make the contract enforceable.

    This coulds explains it also lot better.'s_agreement

    So, I guess you could says, that the formal agreement impossible because it is a game. And, the agreement is only good as the virtual account activity and the hidden identity of the person handling it.

    I like to think as a cause and effect theory in determining the risk of perusing the Deposit service.

    One could premeditate a good tendency to help someone's money. But, one day something bad happen. A car accident in real life. A brick fell from top of a building and landed on the head. A plague that could infect the immune system. The person was incapacitated and lost control to motor function, in a coma, or brain dead.

    Or, you can premeditate and have a good heart to manage people's money with intention of giving the money in maturity but for unknown reason. The mental complication from injuries have alter the mental part of the brain that cause to go the opposite thus openly tell people that they will not be getting their money. Have a nice day, good bye.

    And, one can premeditate to handle people money with just and honest. He or she did everything carefully. One day, the person attempt to login into the account and find this message "The login username or password are incorrect". It turn out that a rogue hacker have hijack the account and have send all money to the mail veredari.

    People can get greedy. If higher interest is being ask, it is to give the person's power to says, hey, this is my money. If you are going to use it, you better give me a better rate. We can possibly says it is a reverse lending service. Otherwise, it is a matter of money being used for profiting over 1%, ignoring any possible risk to the entire principal of the money account.

    I don't remember anything about that either. You think I have a hate war against ICH? I like to think as a devil advocate pointing how stupid loaning people money get in real life principle. Most people borrows, don't pay back in full. This is already a growing epidemic of people's enslaved with debt. The US goverment is in debt over 16 trillion.

    I kind of question the no credit or sub-prime loan as an inside executive corporation corruption to attempt the US goverment to give them free money for their, too big to fail, bank.

    Maybe start posting more in forum of how so and so is no longer in debt and paid in full.

    Not for me, no, for the people but please don't make mumble jumble data and counts it as transparent.

    Why exclude financial compliance and regulation in your deposit service? Yes. I see you just not in real life. I don't know how seeing you make the deposit more secure. If you people give you the money, you are your own judge or executioner of their money. There isn't a single gold coin that says it their money the moment it reaches your account.

    How does me pointing out flaws which in return improve the quality of the service, disqualifying?

    Great! I am glad and proud of you taking the step to improve your service.

    But, every ponzi scheme do what you do. You even didn't even write out all the risk related to the deposit service to help better inform your client or customer to make sounds decision. If it was an insult, your defensive mechanism was set too high.

    And, you definitely could not known that I know everything about the financial "circuit?", let alone proof that I know everything about financial in Mortal Online. Even, I can't prove that you are a financial genius of Mortal Online. Dang it.
    • Disagree x 1
  19. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

  20. ruben ibarruri

    ruben ibarruri Senior Member

    I agree in reality Clearly, but you have a problem with the banks and to financial work.
    His whole exhibition is aimed at a single goal:
    Show that you are right in the fact that banks are bad, any type of financial activity is bad and people are slaves and victims.Well, in the case of my banking, when someone asks me for money and then refuse to pay me (thank god not usually happen) I am the victim and the executioner debtor.I have provided a service and has not kept his word.You always consider victim to one who takes a loan, which the evil bankers explode. that would make sense if someone had forced them.
    We could continue talking endlessly about this and you continue posting indefinitely struggling to prove that you are right and azidano and I are wrong. Honestly, the purpose of this post is to provide uns ervice not establish endless discussions with you about your contempt for the banking sector.
    I do not care anything all that tells me about the real world. I do not have anything to do. At the end of the day sir, this is a game. Let you be the community to judge my work. I will try to be transparent in as the game allows. (I have limitations) There is never 100% security in anything.My job is to try to get closer ment possible 100%.
    If you want to discuss finances I invite you to open a post and willingly takes part, but I would appreciate it stops trying to sow doubts and hurt me. In fact it has done (it was his initial intention) with this endless talk nonsense. You will not be responsible for me to do or not do something. I am very committed to providing the best service. You bombard me with all his anticapitalisa paranoia at the same time my service started even gave me the benefit of the doubt.
    Before you can broaden my deposits you have already attacked me with inconsistent criticism. If you do not remember your other comments on other post about ICH or issues related to our work, you have little memory. In my opinion you just looking for notoriety.
    I invite you to leave personal disqualifications (inflated reputation, bad English) and do something for yourself in the MO.
    I do not know the value of my reputation, but you seem to yours based criticize everything that others do. I recommend you look into a mirror.And now please leave me alone.

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