Discussion in 'Nobleman's Wisdom' started by Branwulf, Jan 6, 2010.
saburra = sandstone afaik
No, not when you are extracting materials from ore like you are currently doing. Any day now you will have basic refining, where you will be able to use one Main material and up to two Additives (catalysts) to produce better materials and alloys.
edit: just want to clarify that this is a different process and not "extraction" - it's the step after extraction and will be based on alloying skill(s) (as well as material lore).
Pretty clear indication of the move towards steel refining, pig iron + calx + coal (or coke) = iron/steel depending on how many steps there are, they still use the same materials in purifying the material.
I'm thinking coke is better for furnace use than coal, possibly giving higher yields in exchange for having to deal with another step.
An intresting thing to test is that does the first step of creating pig-iron require coal at all and could you instead replace it with calx for higher yields?
And at some point could we possibly skip steps, since pig iron->iron and iron->steel should logically require the same catalysts, a highly skilled individual could theoretically get away with doing both steps in one.
Mats, is that means we are not being able to extract steel from pig iron or bron from cuprum as we are missing some extraction skill? Or it is possible to refine them but we juz not find it out yet? I really need a confirmation about being able to refine steel or not...thanks =D
Just edited my post to clarify
so we'll need the 2 master alloys skill to get metals
My question is "Is this currently implimented?" It half sounds like something already in game and half like something you're about to put in... just a clarification would help.
No. Master Alloys is a Material Lore skill.
As soon as you are doing anything that has to do with materials (extracting, alloying, crafting) your Material Lore skills will be checked.
If you for instance put Blood Ore into a Natorus, the following skills will be checked:
Extraction -> Basic Ore Extraction -> Intermediate Ore Extraction
Crafting Appliances -> Ore Extraction Appliances -> Hydraulic Appliances -> Natorus Operation
Material Lore -> Petrology -> Mineralogy -> Blood Ore
Material Lore -> Metallurgy -> Basic Metals -> Pig Iron
No, alloying is not in yet, but will most probably be in the next patch.
somebody on IRC said that Coke is a tier2 cataclyst and give higher yields.
Well, I recall having to use a flux to make steel in Dwarf Fortress, one of which being limestone. Just throwing that out there...
I'm able to use the furance, I still have yet to get any pig iron though, what are the skill levels required to start seeing pig iron?
Are you trying to get Pig Iron from Blood Ore?
1. Devices can be more or less dependent on Catalysts. The Furnace relies heavily on using the right Catalyst.
2. The more Ore you put in the more likely it is that you get something back, at least on low levels.
Yes, trying to get pig iron from blood ore, I think coal is whats currently being reccomended?
Thanks for the response mats.
The problem is your other related skills are at low level. Now I figure out you can't just sit in MK. In order to get more out of blood and lower the lost ratio. You need to look into the following
Material Lore -> Petrology -> Minerology -> Blood Ore Lore
Material Lore -> Metallurgy -> Basic Metals -> Pig Iron Lore
Crafting Appliances -> Ore Extraction Appliances -> Thermal Appliances -> Furance Operation.
Technique -> Extraction -> Basic Ore Extraction -> Intermediate Ore Extraction
You need to have all 4 of these skills at high enough level to get a good yield out of it. That's so far what I've found out. If you read my other post, I went into the same situation as you do a couple days ago. If you are just starting to extract from blood ore, you'll probably have to put 1000 blood ore to get around 10-15 pig iron. This is what I call awful game logic.
So you mean having to practice basic ores first (and also getting an understanding of the machine) before taking on the more difficult materials is awful?
I do agree that a game that could simulate even more details of the actual process of extracting the ore would be great - it would involve even more player skill. However, due to time constraints and technical barriers we cannot simulate each and every step of the different extraction processes and we therefore need to put some of the skill in "character skill" as opposed to "player skill". Also, the system is already very complicated and we need to draw the line between SimExtraction(tm) and a role-playing game (where your character can know more than you do) somewhere.
Or do you mean you want a more straightforward system with recipes? Perhaps you can give me an example of better game logic? I'm actually not being sarcastic here, I'm just trying to find out what you think is so awful about the logic of the system?
WHat about the minigames Mats?
It would be cool instead of having the current click and wait thingie to have some sort of a mini game that requires some coordination and real life skill from the player...
Plus it makes the grinding less noticeble!
I would love to be able to implement the planned "minigames" (it depends on what you mean by minigames) for the different stages of extraction and crafting in MO, but unfortunately they will take a lot of time even though they are "basic". Having to rely on "character skill" really hurts, but right now we really need to make sure extraction, alloying and crafting is even in the game!
edit: Your new avatar is really ..horrible. Is it because we introduce rabbits in the new patch?
Well its nice that at least you dont entirely discard adding a minigame for crafting at some point.
I think a great game to take example from is Farenheit where minigames involving pressing certain keys in certain order made the game much more challenging...
And the avatar....I hope it makes trolls rage even more so I can later go and collect their sweet tears
Sorry, that statement is somewhat miss leading. The awful part is leveling up the refine skill is just tedious and timing consuming. Just simply compare the difference of leveling up a sword skill. I think there are at least a few threads that people are complaining already. The *key* thing is how to make it complex and realistic, but not tedious.
We are kinda getting off topic....anyway.
Base on what I see so far, you need a whole guild of 15-20 people feeding the refiner day and nights with different materials, and so, in order to just having 1 refiner in the guild.
So, what about other people? No one would like to trade our hard work to someone we don't know; and then all we can do is hope the person (refiner) would trade an item back. The realistic thing is YOU CANNOT TRUST ANYONE ON THE INTERNET!
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