My Veela is the best dagger wielder My Kallardian is the best axe wielder. My Huergar is the best dagger maker. WHAT? Stats affect quality of combat, mental and atheletics skills. Stats do not affect quality of crafting, so everyone rolls a Huergar crafter because he builds out to be 110 INT and crafting is mostly about lore so that means he gets an extra skill to use. The above should be.... My Veela is the best dagger maker My Kallardian is the best axe maker My Huergar is the best hammer maker Across the entire skill tree 100 in a stat that impacts a skill should mean you are capped at 100 in that skill just like now. But the max skill from skilling and reading is now 90 so what will happen is you got 10 bonus that does not count toward overall primary skill caps. As compensation for bonus not being used for extra skills but skill quality, we raise skill cap from 1100 to 1200. However 80 STR for a STR skill should mean you are capped at 98=(90+80/10) in that skill, in other words there is no bonus possible to get you to 100 at all because you are only of average strength. 120 DEX for a DEX skill should mean you are capped at 102=(90+120/10) in that skill. This requires removing the default parent cap of 100 that limits now. Do away with stats mean bonuses that let you max one more skill and get skills maxed a little quicker, and you will see more racial diversity and specialization in the MO population. No longer will min/maxing mean 100 on specialized skills. My 20 STR Sheevra should not be even capable of having the strength to make an axe because she cannot even carry the thing. But with this bonusing scheme the best she would be able to do is 92 on axes, which means her axe weight and durability will suffer and no amount of training can overcome her low strength. Her swords that are STR/DEX skill combo of (20+120)/2=70 average stat means she is at best 97 on swords, still competitive in market just not the very best. So maybe the little used human with more balanced stats becomes the more balanced crafters, while specialized race builds become more specialized crafter. Becomes a tradeoff of min/max vs. balance now, a good thing since balance is currently not required at all in crafting. With the large number of min/maxer builders on the server that limitation just will not do and you will then start to see Kallardian axe makers and Sheevra dagger makers as the best of the best. Huergars with their low DEX would be out of the dagger business, they can make them but they are not competitive. Doing it this way as long as you are 100+/-20% on a stat you will not be OP or nerfed as 100+/-2 skill points is barely noticeable. You will only be nerfed if you have 20 stat and try to do the affected skills, you will still be able to make things for yourself you are happy with, but nobody will want to buy your stuff because you are not maxed on it. Apply to the rest of the skill tree. Now your 120 DEX and 90 CON Veela vs. your 120 CON 90 DEX half-breed becomes slightly more distinguished in specific benefits from the athletics tree. The half-breed will be a capable long distance runner with 99 on DEX skills and 102 on CON skills, the Veela will be more a capable sprinter with 102 on DEX skills, and 99 on CON skills. With DEX/CON combo skills they will be the same capability. Overall these are such a slight difference that player skill rather than alt skill will still be the most important. If you have bad stamina management as a player no amount of alt skill can help you there. If you as a player do not research your craft and just use default recipes no amount of skill deviation can help you. However you will be nerfed if you have a bad alt build for that skill, as you will not be able to grind your way to the max anymore and that -8% from not having that skill maxed from stats is enough to kill you in the market or the battlefield.
I like it. I think it's a good idea. I had actually posted a similar idea as a suggestion in the old bug tracker; still have the link in my sig. But, as the old bug report forums are gone, the link no longer works. Luckily, I saved the write up on an external device before posting it. My version was a bit more harsh, in that I suggested the supporting attributes would have a greater impact how high a skill could be advanced. For instance, a character with 80 Dex and 100 Str would only be able to advance Dex and Str dependent skills to 90(the sum of the attributes/2 rounded up(or down)). Your formula is more forgiving, and likely more appealing. Naturally, I favor my version, but I certainly wouldn't mind if yours was implemented. I especially like the Veela sprinter -vs- Half-breed distance runner comparison. On a similar note: I recall Big H hinting at some sort of racial bonuses being implemented some time in the future. I'm guessing the plan is to create an incentive to play some of the less popular races, thus increasing the diversity in character builds.
That is why I was more forgiving on the bonus being only 10% attr above 90, originally was going to be harsher then figured out this gives a slight edge or a slight hit for you 80-120 so average to good to excellent builds has nothing to cry about. If a player cannot overcome a 2pt difference in alt skill with their own player skill some thing is wrong with them. It mainly penalizes the min/maxers who pick the same race everyone else does and bring an attr down to 10-20pts to get the 120pts somewhere else. If they are perfectly attr./skill matched is likely not possible, there will be some skill they cannot max so they might want to consider more balanced options. The bonusing calculation itself is already done in the game this way, i.e. if you have 100 INT you get 10pts skill bonus. The difference is stopping skilling at 90 rather than 100, your remainder skill has to come from the bonus. In effect this is the way it is because if you get 110 on a skill it goes to waste as points, so everybody drains the skill down to 90. So really am just changing the bonus purpose to define how good you are above 90% skilled, rather than the situation of just using the bonuses to get another skill, with the pro/con of over/under 100 being skill limit based on your build. The end result is people will have more of a tradeoff to make with min/maxing vs. balancing when it comes to racial attr. skill builds. What seems to be a minor change in calculation would indeed result in more racial diversity (and if combined with racial powers like sheevra night vision that will make for even more diversity too) You would need a STR/INT/DEX build to make 2H swords the best. That is not a Huergar, nor an Alvarin. This simple fix brings an unused race into the game consisting of T/K fighters, Huergar crafters, and Veelan hybrid. For 2H swords an attr. focused Tindreme would be good, and they are the race you would think would be swordsmen
Idea in this thread is that X stat points gives you 90+X/10 max for each skills based on that stat. So the existing attribute bonus is an individual skill cap limit to create more racial diversity in both min/max and balanced builds. The idea is extended to make the attribute also limit your overall skill points for that attribute, you can have X*10 (or maybe X*5 is balanced?) total skill points that are based on that stat. This does away with the whole concept of primaries and secondaries, and creates choices within a tree that you can traverse in a min/max or balanced mannner.
Hi, I am newer to the world of nave. With that being said, I think the min/max approach currently hurts the feel of this game. I really don't want to have to make a homogenous crafter to be competitive, or to get the most out of him. Seeing as the unanimous approach to creating a fighter involves creating thurgar/khurite/khurite, it is a shame that the crafter is also designated to a single cade. I'm sure there are exceptions and I will be able to get along fine creating my own flavour, but it's sad to know they will not have any specialty to set them apart. (other than being sub-optimal) This change seems like a great idea.
